R7 Focus Stacking forces electronic shutter

[rpoole]

The R7, and other R series cameras, forces electronic shutter for focus stacking. This prevents the use of flash for focus stacking. There is no really good reason for not allowing mechanical shutter for focus stacking and the choice of which shutter should be left up to the photographer, not the camera. Does anyone know of any workarounds that can allow the use of flash with the built-in focus stacking?

[hellochando]

I'm using speedlights at 1/16 power for macro food photos so recycle time isn't an problem. Most of the camera movement is from manually turning the focus ring. Camera shake from the mechanical shutter isn't even an issue on a tripod at high sync speeds. Using continuous lighting isn't a great option for shooting macro at high apertures - too bulky for tight setups and not ideal for things like chocolate. I invested in two R5Cs, and that price point, it's a monumental disappointment.

[pwiles1968]

Yes a Flash system can refresh that fast especially with external power packs and Video lights are not strong or diffused enough I have been doing this for years the old method is to put camera on burst and manually move the camera this is a bit hit and miss but the burst rate is no different, being able to have the camera stack (with Flash) would be a great advantage and other manufacturers do it, Look at someone like this https://instagram.com/macro_by_rory?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== who is a ver accomplished macro photographer he stacks images by manually moving through the subject while on burst 

[wq9nsc]

I believe the R3 is the only mirrorless that has focus stacking with flash, insufficient sensor readout speed is the reason flash can't be used with the lesser R series models.

And as you correctly pointed out, flash recycle time isn't an issue at reduced power which is where it normally will be set for macro photography.  Canon's MR-14 EX II macro ring light flash has a minimum recycle time of .1 second at minimum power increasing to around 5 seconds at high power.  My Hensel studio strobes have the same .1 second minimum recycle time (9 flashes per second) at low power decreasing to 2 flashes per second at their maximum 500 watt output.

It is common with some camera producers to provide adjustable delay between stacking steps to allow for flash recycling.

Rodger

[pwiles1968]

No when you do real macro 1:1 or greater ambient light is insufficient you have to use dedicated lenses or adapters you are so close you often are blocking light from the subject 

[Waddizzle]

I don’t think a recharge time of 0.1 sec is fast enough for a body capable of 20-40 fps. 

[hellochando]

Fujifilm XT4 focus bracketing with flash: https://youtu.be/4LBHZ5GiEkQ

[deebatman316]

Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus (now OM Systems), Sony, Nikon (certain cameras) do. But the readout speed IS NOT fast enough. Therefor flash photography IS incompatible with the electronic shutter. Only the EOS R3 offers this feature because of the faster readout speed. This IS a hardware limitation not something that can fixed using firmware.

[Waddizzle]

I do not understand what sensor readout speed has to do with it.  

Unlike the Fuji in the video, the Canon setup does not allow for control of the interval between shots.  The camera will capture the images at the fastest possible frame rate.  Changing the Drive Mode has no effect.  Focus Bracketing seems to always use  High Speed Continuous Drive Mode.

Unless, the R3 allows you to control the interval between shots in the Focus Bracketing menu, then I do not see how it could allow for flash, either. 

[deebatman316]

The R3 allows because of the Back Side Illuminated Sensor (BSI) I believe. This was the most common reason stated in multiple forums. 

[Waddizzle]

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@deebatman316 wrote:

The R3 allows because of the Back Side Illuminated Sensor (BSI) I believe. This was the most common reason stated in multiple forums. 

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Again, what does sensor readout speed have to do with it?  In fact, I don’t think shutter mode has anything to do with the issue, either.

The way I see it, the problem is that the frame rate in focus bracketing mode is WAY too fast to use a flash.  You are not able to control or vary the interval time between shots.  

In the posted video, a sequence of 40 sample shots is used.  I think she set the interval to 1 second between shots.  The entire sequence was initiated and completed in about a minute.  If I setup my R6M2 for 40 shots, it will be completed in less than 2 seconds.  BZZT…Done!

Focus Bracketing always runs at the fastest possible frame rate on my R6M2.  I cannot set an interval between frames.  I would suspect the other models exhibit the same behavior.  You cannot control the interval between shots.