When will canon fix the focus issues with the 70D?

[Photogirl55]

I was "T.H.I.S." close to buying the 70D.  I have read WAYYY too many posts about issues with the focusing on the 70D.  How is Canon handling the issue?  I would love to buy this camera, but not willing to gamble with that much money.

[Molybdo42]

Look at those pictures :

http://s1262.photobucket.com/user/Molybdo42/media/originalTestShot_overlay_zps52452615.jpg.html

http://s1262.photobucket.com/user/Molybdo42/media/originalTestShot_overlay2_zpsa12995f2.jpg.html

I've overlaid my own focus area on your pictures.

The first one shows in transparency my focus areas overlayed over your pictures.

The second one show in transparency the sensitive AF area (in my case) overlayed on the focus point you used.

In all cases none can allow me to test the focus issue, the grass was always clearly inside the rectangle where my faulty camera can lock focus (by lock I mean I would hear a "bip").

Am I clear enough ?

[pdqgp]

---

@Molybdo42 wrote:

No, sorry, you didn't understand the purpose of the test.

The purpose is to see if the camera can lock focus on the portions I've highligted in red in the following picture :

None of your "real world" test answer my question. That is why I'm asking you to do the test in front of a computer screen and on a tripod. I'm making this to isolate the issue, the protocol is made in order to avoid the camera locking focus behind ornemental grass.

On my camera the focus points N°3 and 14 wouldn't lock focus.

---

Okay, I think I see what you're talking about.  However, I hate to say this, but nothing is wrong with your camera.   The focus system from the 7D and the 70D are shown here.   Read the following for a bit more information and let me know if you need further clarification.

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/41174/if-the-focal-plane-is-curved-should-the-outer-af-poin...

thus you can see where if you're going to shoot a person and want to focus on their eyes, in landscape mode it's important to select teh correct focus point AND to understand how they work.   You may be a bit put off by the above, but rotate through the zones of focus points and you'll see that they favor top, bottom, left, right and center.

[Molybdo42]

Yes I've seen that picture. Like I said in another post, I'm already aware that the focus sensitive strips extend quite a bit in certain direction and that it doesn't cover certain areas (http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/EOS-70D-focus-issue-question/m-p/97566#U97566)

This guy did a similar measurement as me on his 7D :

http://blogs.stonesteps.ca/showpost.aspx?pid=54

He has better results than mine and the sensitive strip covers entirely the focus points I pointed to in my last posts. If

you look at any of his points, his camera AF covers a wider area and is more centered than mine.

To map the sensitive area, the measurement protocol I proposed (the long one, not the quick test) has been made to be the most precise and reproductible as possible (this is why it's long and requires a computer screen). Ididn't put rectangles randomly where I feel would be great, what you see is where my camera can focus ! You unfortunately have to admit that at least my 70D is defective with focus issues.

Also, since the 70D doesn't have the same AF modes as the 7D (for example no spot focus) I wanted to know how the AF would behave in a working 70D. Maybe Canon disabled some pixels in the AF sensor to make the coverage smaller. Nevertheless, the focus coverage in my 70D is decentered (just look at the center point !) and doesn't cover Liveview's marks, so in my opinion my 70D AF sensor is misaligned.

Seing the insidious nature of the AF issue, I'm counting on using the AF coverage to spot reliably the issue, even without a fast lens. This is what I'm desperately trying to explain...

I did the same kind of measurements on my 60D and all my 9 focus points where covering the marks in LiveView. I don't have the picture on this hard drive so I'll try to remake the measurement to post the result here.

[pdqgp]

---

@Molybdo42 wrote:

Yes I've seen that picture. Like I said in another post, I'm already aware that the focus sensitive strips extend quite a bit in certain direction and that it doesn't cover certain areas (http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/EOS-70D-focus-issue-question/m-p/97566#U97566)

This guy did a similar measurement as me on his 7D :

http://blogs.stonesteps.ca/showpost.aspx?pid=54

He has better results than mine and the sensitive strip covers entirely the focus points I pointed to in my last posts. If

you look at any of his points, his camera AF covers a wider area and is more centered than mine.

To map the sensitive area, the measurement protocol I proposed (the long one, not the quick test) has been made to be the most precise and reproductible as possible (this is why it's long and requires a computer screen). Ididn't put rectangles randomly where I feel would be great, what you see is where my camera can focus ! You unfortunately have to admit that at least my 70D is defective with focus issues.

Also, since the 70D doesn't have the same AF modes as the 7D (for example no spot focus) I wanted to know how the AF would behave in a working 70D. Maybe Canon disabled some pixels in the AF sensor to make the coverage smaller. Nevertheless, the focus coverage in my 70D is decentered (just look at the center point !) and doesn't cover Liveview's marks, so in my opinion my 70D AF sensor is misaligned.

Seing the insidious nature of the AF issue, I'm counting on using the AF coverage to spot reliably the issue, even without a fast lens. This is what I'm desperately trying to explain...

I did the same kind of measurements on my 60D and all my 9 focus points where covering the marks in LiveView. I don't have the picture on this hard drive so I'll try to remake the measurement to post the result here.

---

Have you shared your findings and graphics with Canon service?  That's what I would do.  Articulate the findings with as few words and as simply as you can and include that with the Camera.   Best I can do/say. 

One of the posters here early on tried shooting a bird at f/2.8 and missed, etc....well without seeing their photos it's kind of hard to say what caused it.   Who shoots birds at f/2.8 anyway?  If lighting is that low to warrant a wide open lens, best practice is to use a flash anyway.   Photography is about light now shadows or no light, thus I can't imagine his shot would have been stellar.

In the end, knowing the gear and focus systems and how they function is key.  Sounds like you're getting a good handle on this.  I think the advantage to a 70D with it's articulated screen and better focusing is the the ability to use it and zoom in too.

The above doesn't necessarily address your issue, but rather are just points I'm making.  Good luck to you.

[Molybdo42]

Argl !

Last thing, paper seems to be a delicate target to use, my 60D can lock focus on some imperfections and shadows if you've bent or nicked the paper.

For that sort of test, the less complicated target is to use any computer screen with the following picture http://s1262.photobucket.com/user/Mo...6f833.png.html

- Download it,

- Open it with windows viewer,

- Zoom until the black/white vertical edge covers the majority field of view through the viewfinder

Using a computer screen also allows you to move the black rectangle anywhere. Best to use a tripod, no need to check screen/camera parallelism.

[70Downer]

---

@pdqgp wrote:

---

I read the above and I'm not sure what you want me to look at or so.  Nothing stands out.  There's a poll whereby now it's at 14% of the replies have issues.   Not surprising on many levels given the thread.   Let's put poll together in a thread talking about problems.  Of course the percentages will be higher.  Even still that's lower than I would have suspected.  Ironic really.

Seriously, go take some shots and link us to those.  Not "test" shots that make no sense like shooting a gate at f/1.8 with a cheap lens that's well known for having a poor focus system and spotty results.  Heck, I own that same crappy lens.   Also, even with the 24-70L, don't expect f/2.8 shots to be tack sharp.  The lens is inherrently soft at f/2.8 and that's why an MKII has been released.  Again, I own the MKI version.   

Keep the shots real with real-world settings.   Here are a couple basics:

Want a test shot?  Sure, even I tested sharpness of lenses.

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156561983/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156561982/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156112243/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156096054/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156072197/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156175304/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156764715/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156519936/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156764649/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/156764612/original.jpg

---

All that proves is that you have a good copy. So what is your point?

That there are no bad copies out there?  Nope just proves you have a good one.

Are you saying that because you have a good one they are all good? Or that because you have a good one that means all the people having a inconsistant focus issue with the center point are not all having that problem? Because many are, which is why this thread is here and on many other forum and on youtube..because there is a commen problem affecting many camera's.

Nobody is saying that  they are all bad. Just that there are far to many with the same exact problem, its a known problem and peole are wanting to know when canon plans to do something about it.

I also had a bad one, does that mean they are all bad?  No it doesn't.

[ScottyP]

I have no dog in the fight. I don't own a 70d. I certainly share the majority's presumption that user error is more likely the case, even when you see a number of people joining in with "me too" since user error is a widespread phenomenon and there are probably a million different ways a million different people might be getting out of focus shots. Second most likely would probably be isolated bad units, if there are a lot more people WHO ACTUALLY OWN THE 70d who are not having any trouble. On the other hand, I wouldn't rule out a more widespread defect entirely.

My point was simply what I stated. On some forums you will see the same people scoffing at the competency of folks claiming a Canon defect turn right around and claim, for example, that Sigma lenses are all prone to AF problems and if they actually own one and had trouble, then they bristle at the suggestion it could be user error.
I closed with "it's just funny" rather than "it's pure unmitigated evil" because it really is simply a little funny and not that big a deal. 🙂

[pdqgp]

My 70D focus was spot on in still shots both with the OVF and LV modes, but I found out that during AIServo shots it was way, way off and exhibited a weird nothing in focus problem.  This occured with all of my Canon and Non Canon lenses but ironically they all worked perfectly on my 40D.

I'm a little nervous as all they did was make minor electronic adjustments to bring it to closer to perfect tollerances vs just within tollerances.   I follow what they mean, but am going to be upset if I find that my 40D performs better.

Canon techs did state that if it continues to have problems that I could send it along with my Canon lenses for adjustments, but then that would in turn mean that I would have to have Tamron then adjust their lens with my Body.  A true PIA and one that I wouldn't think would be necessary.

Fingers crossed.

[RobertTheFat]

---

@pdqgp wrote:

My 70D focus was spot on in still shots both with the OVF and LV modes, but I found out that during AIServo shots it was way, way off and exhibited a weird nothing in focus problem.  This occured with all of my Canon and Non Canon lenses but ironically they all worked perfectly on my 40D.

I'm a little nervous as all they did was make minor electronic adjustments to bring it to closer to perfect tollerances vs just within tollerances.   I follow what they mean, but am going to be upset if I find that my 40D performs better.

Canon techs did state that if it continues to have problems that I could send it along with my Canon lenses for adjustments, but then that would in turn mean that I would have to have Tamron then adjust their lens with my Body.  A true PIA and one that I wouldn't think would be necessary.

Fingers crossed.

---

At least the 70D has autofocus microadjustment (as the 60D, for example, does not). So if Canon succeeds in adjusting the camera to your Canon lenses, you may be able to reprogram it as necessary for your Tamron lenses. It's a bit hard to see how the problem you describe will be solved by the proposed tweaking, but maybe you'll get lucky.

[pdqgp]

Robert...I see your point, but the part I can't figure out is where MFA will come into play. The lenses and camera are spot on in terms of focus when shooting still shots, thus no MFA is needed. My camera was clearly exhibiting a problem with AIServo, thus I hope whatever they fixed corrects that but doesn't impact the single shot quality.

I get frustrated easily and I suppose it's because I didn't like the answer Canon Gave regarding 3rd party lenses and trying to focus blame on them. My Tamaron 70-200 is amazing and works great on still shots. No go on AIServo. however, niegher do any of my Canon's.

I also didn't like the fact that they said that just because my 40D works great with all of them, that it doesn't mean my 70D will. WTF, in that case the 70D is a major downgrade for me then. I see their point that the two cameras have different AF Systems, but for one to work fine with all my lenses and the other not and for them to say that's within tolerance and acceptable is total garbage. I shouldn't have to send in my new camera and all my lenses to get them to work as they should.

In the end, I'm only going to tollerate so much and only because I have my 40D as a backup. However I won't do it for long. I'll take a loss and sell the 70D on craigslist and test out a 7DMKII but my fear is then simliar.

Canon needs to work on Customer service. If this can't be resolved, swap out my camera and don't send me one that doesn't work.

I'm jumping to conclusions though. Camera is do to arrive today. We'll see.