EOS R5 & R6 - Menu setting: Expo. Simulation: Disable/During/Enable not working.

[ABNpix]

Equipment:

Canon R5 and R6 (with multiple flashes & remote triggers):

Situation: 

Portrait of person in dark suit, indoors, 60 feet behind subject wall is lit by window light, one light soft box on subject.

My problem:  

I can not compose a photo while flash or strobes are engaged. While shooting a portrait (indoors) with flash or studio strobes (Profoto) via remote trigger on hot shoe, the exposure simulation does not seem to work. Menu setting: Expo. Simulation: I’ve used all three settings Disable/During/Enable and the same issue/results happen. If I view the subject (dark jacket) through camera LCD or EVF the monitor goes bright because monitor is trying to make a good visual exposure to view the dark subject which in turn blows out the background or if you angle the camera away from subject toward something bright the monitor goes dark to compensate for the brightness. 

When I take the photo the final image in camera is perfectly lit and exposed correctly - the issue is trying to view and compose the photo before I even take it.... The EVF/LCD is blown out/way over exposed so much so that I can’t compose the photo correctly (ie. Background, architectural lines coming out of persons head).  

If I turn OFF the flash -or- turn OFF the remote trigger then the viewable image on the LCD or EVF shows the correct exposure, the background is not blown out and I can see the architecture and compose the photo. 

If I turn the flash back ON or the trigger for remote, the EVF/LCD shows the background blown out (way over exposed, so much that I can not see what’s there)…. Impossible to compose a photo, it’s like being blind, this is unexceptable.  

Ive called CPS they said they don’t know why this happens (the tech even had the same camera & flash set up and saw the same issue I have)….  He had no answer or help for me.

I don’t know why the monitor shifts when the lens is pointed towards dark or light areas - it should not shift at all if I am shooting fully manual. Just because I turn on a flash the monitor shifts under and over exposed if you focus on bright or dark areas this does not seem correct. I personally can’t believe this has not been addressed or solved by now….   For $6,000.00 USD (R5$4k & R6$2k) I can’t believe this is even an issue…. My other mirrorless system LCD/EVF does not change at all when connected to strobes or flash, the LCD/EVF stays exactly where the manual exposure is set, even when I shift my view from dark to light areas.  

I look forward to any response or answers to the issue.  

Thank you all for your time. 

ABN

[NatalyaP]

Greetings ABNpix,

I can understand your frustration caused when composing your shot when shooting with flashes and strobes. I understand you have tried the different functions available under Exposure Simulation. When it comes to shooting with flashes, we do recommend on disabling Exposure Simulation.

You state you have already called our phone support team but in case you would like to continue troubleshooting then you may call them since phone support may have access to the equipment to troubleshoot it side by side with you. They can be reached at 1-800-652-2666, Monday through Friday between 9:00 am to 9:00 pm ET and Saturday between 9:00 am to 7:00 pm ET.

In the meantime, I have submitted your feedback to our engineers. Please note that decisions to update the function of the camera are made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and customer feedback are all taken into consideration.

[ABNpix]

Wow, to the post - these are all very good points, not exactly what I was talking about, but very close. Thanks for sharing (helping).

It’s seems Canon is incapable of having this situation work correctly. 

I understand why its not working (there is no fix) the camera R5 & R6 are doing exactly what they should…

I just dont understand how the R5 cant expose for the background (brighter than subject background) when flash is on.

Im a 35 year veteran-professional photographer I know how to manually expose a picture and light it with strobes/speed lights whatever and have a perfect looking photograph…..  The problem is - this is the world of mirrorless - you can view on LCD or VF and see exactly what you’re getting exposure-wise when looking through the camera or lcd…. But the minute you turn on the flash (speed lite) that blows out the background or if I have Profoto remote with strobe and modeling light on subject as soon as I turn on flash background blows out - which makes it impossible to compose a photograph and make sure I have nothing running through my subjects head - you need to be able to see this when composing your photo……

My want from Canon is to step up! I have been a Canon photographer for 20+ years, Nikon before that (15+ years) and for the last 12 years I have been a Fujifilm photographer (for my personal work)…… Guess what Canon? - when I put my flash (speed lite) or remote flash trigger system on my Fujifilm cameras  and look through the VF or the LCD when the flash is on, the image is perfectly exposed - no blown out background, I can see my subject and my background simultaneously, both subject and background perfectly exposed, what you see is what you get - go figure I can now compose my photo.   

You’re Canon the big dog, I’m working with an R5 $4,000.00USD camera and a $600 flash and you cant achieve this simple issue so I can compose a photograph. Fujifilm has done it for years no problem…..   Maybe one day you’ll figure it out.

Best of luck Canon - I hope you can fix within firmware one day. I’m heavly invested in Canon (lots of equipment) but when these camera go down or the shutters are shot - I will not replace my Canon gear…….I’ll toss the bodies and sell off the glass and at that point I will totally commit to Fujifilm.

Thank you all for your comments (posts). Sorry you all have the same issues I do…. Let’s watch and see what Canon does.

Canon - No hard feelings - it’s been a great ride, Ive created some great images with Canon and the R system is your best yet…. Still love my old 5dMrk3 but I think our time has come to an end.

Best to all. AB

[usetape]

Hey ABNpix, did you have a chance to read my reply? Applying tape over the e-ttl pins on the trigger itself is the answer to keeping exposure simulation available. Just cover all pins except the centre pin with masking tape. Let me know!

[ABNpix]

Yes I read it. I dont want to argue about dyi solutions - but please note when youre spending $7,000 + on camera, lens, flash no one should have to put tape on it to work... It is not an ideal fix. Although I appreciate your comment. 

[usetape]

Oh believe me, I feel the exact same way. Since I usually use natural light on my subjects the tape stays on 99% of the time - it annoys me but at the end of the day the problem is solved and I’m thankful. One more thing that you may not have tried: put your focus in one shot mode. In one shot mode it will adjust brightness of the image to expose your autofocus point area to get focus (temporarily while focus is being achieved) . I’m not sure if this works with face detect or not, so you may have to use a single af point, but this has solved my problem of having too dark a subject in the past when I’m using flash. Give it a try!

[Dcamba]

Did you ever find a solution or workaround for this issue? I just got a speed light with the aim of using ICF to supplement ambient light indoors and I’m having the same issue you described where the lcd or viewfinder goes dark making it impossible to see to focus on my subject.

[p4pictures]

I think the cameras need a simulate with flash option to be added. In many cases people use flash in low light and that makes sense to disable the simulation so that the subject can be framed correctly and for AF to find and focus on the subject. However doing fill flash in bright light the lack of simulation is a problem, and currently none of the EOS R series have a setting for this. If you take a portrait of a person stood in front of a window with bright day light outside, and use a Speedlite to light the face, you have the camera trying to darken the overexposed background which renders the face too dark for the camera to do face / eye detection and so AF is a challenge also. 

[Waddizzle]

Using ExpSim with a flash does not work.  It is literally impossible to simulate the exposure without light source coming from the flash.  Use a light meter.  DSLRs experience similar issues when trying to use a flash in Live View mode, which is basically how an MILC body works.

“ If I view the subject (dark jacket) through camera LCD or EVF the monitor goes bright because monitor is trying to make a good visual exposure to view the dark subject which in turn blows out the background or if you angle the camera away from subject toward something bright the monitor goes dark to compensate for the brightness. “

What metering mode are you using?  What you are describing sounds perfectly normal.

[p4pictures]

There are cases where you combine flash and ambient light, and certainly exposure simulation cannot simulate the flash as it has not fired. In some situations it would be beneficial to see a simulation of the ambient light before the flash fires. In all the EOS R cameras I have tried, the histogram display is not shown when exposure simulation is disabled so the photographer has no sense of how the ambient will look if they are using a flash.

Here's a couple of situations to highlight the issue:-

1. Using a Speedlite to illuminate the face of a person indoors with bright windows behind them. Here with simulation disabled due to the flash, the camera shows the bright background behind the subject much darker than it will be captured - even with manual exposure on the camera - and makes the subject's face appear too dark. Sometimes if the subject is small or the background really bright the shadowed face is so underexposed that face / eye detection doesn't work effectively.
2. Using an off-camera flash behind the subject as a rim light. In this case the simulation / histogram is important to check the ambient exposure on the face. Since an off-camera Speedlite is used there is no histogram or exposure simulation available.