extension tube question

[DougFraser]

I need to know the inside diameter of the Canon 12mm extension tube. 

I want to use the extension tube between my 1.4X III teleconverter and my 100mm 2.8 L macro (which are otherwise non-compatible). I have read where people are using this combo successfully BUT the protruding portion of the converter will not fit inside my old set of Kenko extension tubes so I would like to know if it will fit with the Canon before buying the new extension tube.

I have the R5 and the focus stacking ability makes macro work even more fabulous so I want to take full advantage of the equipment I have.

[DougFraser]

I don't know enough about the way lenses communicate using these devices. It just seems odd that they would be able to allow for AF control by the camera (which they seem to do with the 100-400) but not allow focus bracketing by the camera - isn't the "same kind" of instruction being sent to the lens? IE to adjust the focus. If anything - I would think the focus bracketing might be easier as all the camera has to do is send increments to the lens and change the focus until it reaches the "count" or infinity focus - whichever comes first. I guess I can just try it with my 100-400 in various combinations with the extension tube and converter 🙂 Something I haven't bothered with since I would not normally use my long lens with the feature. 

[Waddizzle]

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@DougFraser wrote:

I don't know enough about the way lenses communicate using these devices. It just seems odd that they would be able to allow for AF control by the camera (which they seem to do with the 100-400) but not allow focus bracketing by the camera - isn't the "same kind" of instruction being sent to the lens? IE to adjust the focus. If anything - I would think the focus bracketing might be easier as all the camera has to do is send increments to the lens and change the focus until it reaches the "count" or infinity focus - whichever comes first. I guess I can just try it with my 100-400 in various combinations with the extension tube and converter 🙂 Something I haven't bothered with since I would not normally use my long lens with the feature. 

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The problem isn't the focusing.  I never said anything about it focusing or nor focusing.  The problem is on the back end, processing the images.  You may be limited to processing JPGs in post, not in the camera.

[DougFraser]

ok - I was unclear about what you were referring to - but in any event, the combination of extension tube and converter seems to work fine.  The R5 will shoot in any file format (RAW, cRAW and or JPEG) while focus bracketing with both an extension tube and converter on my 100-400 so I can't honestly think of why a focus stacking program won't be able to work with those images any differently just because there is a converter in combination with an extension tube? Maybe DPP takes the lens information into account but that is not the case for all the main stacking programs available - they simply compare, process and combine images.  I must say that focus stacking in my limited experience is a bit hit and miss at the best of times so it's not my primary reason for wanting this combo - but the camera's ability to do the focus bracketing certainly makes it more tempting.

[DougFraser]

fyi - all this can be a bit frustrating because getting an answer from Canon can prove a bit challenging. The first and only response so far from them is that I would "lose" AF ability. But when I use a Kenko extension tube and the Canon 1.4X III converter on the 100-400 I retain full autofocus capability including the camera's ability to perform focus bracketing flawlessly so the Canon person got that aspect wrong. Unless the Kenko extension tube is more compatible than the Canon brand 🙂

[jrhoffman75]

From the DPP manual:

[DougFraser]

Thanks for posting John,

As noted in the manual there are no barriers to using DPP for focus stacking with images from the R5 regardless of the lens (clearly some are recommended) and no mention of any objection to using extension tubes or extenders. I have ordered the Canon extension tube so I can try the extender with my macro 100L but in the meantime I will do a little stacking with the lens and kenko extension tube alone as well as with the 100-400L and extender combo. I will also compare the DPP with PS to see which generates better results. It would be nice to just use lightroom and PS rather than going the DPP route as I currently don't use DPP for image processing now. Have you used DPP for stacking? 

[FloridaDrafter]

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@DougFraser wrote:

Have you used DPP for stacking? 

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I'll jump in here and say that I have. I've been focus stacking for years but used dedicated software made by Helicon. These two were shot with Helicon Remote and stacked in DPP. Obviously, DPP isn't as robust as helicon, but it does a fair job of stacking. I'm not impressed by Canons in camera stacking, although it does a fair job. BTW, I've only tried it with the R6 so the R5 may do better.

5D mark IV and 100mm f/2.8 IS USM L macro. Stacked from Raw.

7D mark II and 100mm f/2.8 IS USM L macro. Stacked from JPeG as a demo to show jpg can be used. The original Tiff files were much much better.

[FloridaDrafter]

To expand my comments a bit. Focus Stacking isn't perfect, regardless of what software you use, and portions of your stack will not be sharp and sometimes just blurry. To remedy this, you have to do some post processing. If you get a blemished area, you have to pick one of the images in the stack, that is in focus, and you "brush" or "clone" the in focus area to the composit. Helicon Focus has a side by side touchup screen that is really easy to use and works well to repair your composit. DPP4 has this, but it is very awkward to use. DPP shows all the shots in your stack as thumbnails with the composit in a pane, which makes it very hard to select the "in focus" portion of the stack to use as clone stock. It does pop up in a side by side when clicked, but Helicon displays the clone stock as you roll over it. DPP is slow to process, and I run a modest i7 6 core Gen 10, NVMe M.2 SSD (2TB), 32GB RAM, 17" laptop (Dell XPS)

Now, Helicon Remote lets you pick a "Point A" or beginng point, then select a "Point B" to end the stack. You can control the mumber of shots either by f/stop or specify a number of shots. I leave it to auto and just set my f/stops and it calculates shots depending on the calculation method I've selected, overlap, tri-angle size, etc. All of this is done in live view, and HR looks very similar to EOS 3 Utility. I use a 10' USB cable to connect.

I guess I'm spoiled, so I want more than selecting a starting point and setting a shot count then strugling to fix or touchup my stacks. Don't get me wrong, DPP does a really good job but you have to do more pre shot planning so you don't have to do so much editing.

Newton

[DougFraser]

Thanks! great info.

I don't suppose you have tried PS auto-align with auto-blend as a stacking option?

I have just got started with this R5 and do like the fact that it takes the photos for me and very rapidly compared to what I would have attempted by hand in the past. But as you note - Helicon remote is a better option upfront. But it sounds like it's not portable? Is it something you can do on a hike with wildflowers - ie can HR be put on a smartphone or must your camera be connected to your laptop? I have been fiddling around a little bit with DPP and it seems excruciatingly slow but I was asking it to stack 50 images. 
Beautiful photos by the way - how many images were stacked in those photos? 

[jrhoffman75]

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@DougFraser wrote:

Thanks! great info.

I don't suppose you have tried PS auto-align with auto-blend as a stacking option?

I have just got started with this R5 and do like the fact that it takes the photos for me and very rapidly compared to what I would have attempted by hand in the past. But as you note - Helicon remote is a better option upfront. But it sounds like it's not portable? Is it something you can do on a hike with wildflowers - ie can HR be put on a smartphone or must your camera be connected to your laptop? I have been fiddling around a little bit with DPP and it seems excruciatingly slow but I was asking it to stack 50 images. 
Beautiful photos by the way - how many images were stacked in those photos? 

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Helicon does have a device called the Focus Bracketing Tube (FBT). It interfaces with  a smartphone. You send contol information from the smartphone to the FBT and then the FBT controls lens focus as you shoot.