896mm Comparison Canon 400mm F5.6 vs Canon 100-400mm II on Canon 80D with a Canon 1,4x Extender III

[JosephKarpinski]

Hi,
First, I’ve been getting really good results at 896mm using a Canon 80D, Canon 100-400mm, and the Canon 1.4x Extender III.
Even handheld with shutter 2000, f/10 for field of view, and auto ISO.
Love having up to 27 AF points at f/8 for BIF.
Use a monopod when I can, to address the weight issue.
Feels like Canon tuned this combination for performance and image sharpness.
When I use the Canon 400mm F5.6 with the Canon 80D and the 1.4x Extender III the results are surprisingly not as good.
With only the single center AF point at f/8 the images are soft at 896mm.
Feels like the AF misses a lot of shots even when compared to using a single AF point with the Canon 100-400mm II.
Its like the Canon 400mm F5.6 lens doesn’t work as well with the 1,4x Extender.
By itself the Canon 400mm F5.6 AF is quick and sharp.
When I add a 1.4x Extender, not as quick or sharp.
The Canon 100-400mm works so well with the 1,4x Extender on the Canon 80D, that I rarely take it off.
Its that good.

[ebiggs1]

Would you care to share some examples?

[Waddizzle]

Having only one available f/8 AF point with the 400mm and the 1.4x III doesn’t sound right to me.  You should still have the 27 f/8 points, but maybe not with that particular lens.  

Different lenses fall into different AF groups, when it comes to AF point functionality and availability.  I would have expected a prime to give you the best results, 27 f/8 AF points.

[JosephKarpinski]

The new Canon 80D supports 27 AF points at f/8 using the new Canon 100-400mm II lens and the new 1.4x Extender III.

With the older 400mm F5.6 lens, in combination with the new 1.4x Extender, it only supports 1 AF point.

The Canon 7D Mark II only supports a single AF point when using the 1,4x Extender on both the Canon 400mm F5.6

and the Canon 100-400mm II. Thus the reason for upgrading to the Canon 80D.

[TTMartin]

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@JosephKarpinskiwrote:

Hi,
First, I’ve been getting really good results at 896mm using a Canon 80D, Canon 100-400mm, and the Canon 1.4x Extender III.
Even handheld with shutter 2000, f/10 for field of view, and auto ISO.
Love having up to 27 AF points at f/8 for BIF.
Use a monopod when I can, to address the weight issue.
Feels like Canon tuned this combination for performance and image sharpness.
When I use the Canon 400mm F5.6 with the Canon 80D and the 1.4x Extender III the results are surprisingly not as good.
With only the single center AF point at f/8 the images are soft at 896mm.
Feels like the AF misses a lot of shots even when compared to using a single AF point with the Canon 100-400mm II.
Its like the Canon 400mm F5.6 lens doesn’t work as well with the 1,4x Extender.
By itself the Canon 400mm F5.6 AF is quick and sharp.
When I add a 1.4x Extender, not as quick or sharp.
The Canon 100-400mm works so well with the 1,4x Extender on the Canon 80D, that I rarely take it off.
Its that good.

---

Yes, Canon has optimized all of their IS II series big whites to work with the series III teleconverters. 

Even with my 7D Mk II I agree the Canon 100-400mm L IS II works so well with the 1,4x Extender, that I rarely take it off.
Its that good.

Those that haven't tried the combination and are relying on stale information where older lenses didn't perform as well with teleconverters (as you experienced) don't know what they are missing. 

Every time someone talks about Canon coming out with a 150-600 lens to match Tamron or Sigma, I say they already have the EF 100-400 IS II with a 1.4X TC III. Bether image quality, L lens build quality and less weight than 3rd party 150-600 lenses. 

Even with my 7D Mk II I agree the Canon 100-400mm L IS II works so well with the 1,4x Extender, that I rarely take it off.
Its that good.

[ebiggs1]

"Every time someone talks about Canon coming out with a 150-600 lens to match Tamron or Sigma, I say they already have the EF 100-400 IS II with a 1.4X TC III."

You may have answered the question of when, or even if, Canon offers a 150 200-600mm f5-6.3 lens.  There have been design patents for a ef 200-600mm super zoom.  It is not an "L" level lens, though.  It is supposed to be in direct competition to the Sigma and Tamron.  If Canon did a 200-600mm L lens it would cost ten grand !

Brand-N has and for some time now a AF-S NIKKOR 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR Lens.  I don't own it but have used it.  It isn't as good as either the SIgma or Tamron (certainly not as good as the G2). 

[JosephKarpinski]

This is just my opinion, but I found the Canon 7D Mark II performance and image quality just ok, when used with the Canon 100-400 II and the 1.4x Extender III. The single AF point at f/8 was good in busy background settings, but BIF were a challenge. I prefer the 9 center cross-type  AF points  at f/8 on the Canon 80D for BIF. More in-focus keepers. 

The single AF point on the Canon 7D Mark II at 896mm was sluggish at time, compared to the AF on the Canon 80D.

And the image quality of the Canon 80D was sharp even in lowlight and high ISO. Surprising image quality at 2000-5000 ISO.

Read somewhere that the Canon 80D has more metal connectors when attaching to the 1.4x Extender III, than the older 7D Mark II. And for the cost of a Canon 7D Mark II, one can buy both the Canon 80D and the 1.4x Extender III.

While the Canon 7D Mark II is a better built professional camera with a higher frame rate, larger buffer, more AF points, dual card slots, etc, etc, at 896mm the lower price Canon 80D shines with AF performance and image quality.

[JosephKarpinski]

Examples here on my Instagram account

https://www.instagram.com/josephkarpinski/

[Waddizzle]

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@JosephKarpinskiwrote:

This is just my opinion, but I found the Canon 7D Mark II performance and image quality just ok, when used with the Canon 100-400 II and the 1.4x Extender III. The single AF point at f/8 was good in busy background settings, but BIF were a challenge. I prefer the 9 center cross-type  AF points  at f/8 on the Canon 80D for BIF. More in-focus keepers. 

The single AF point on the Canon 7D Mark II at 896mm was sluggish at time, compared to the AF on the Canon 80D.

And the image quality of the Canon 80D was sharp even in lowlight and high ISO. Surprising image quality at 2000-5000 ISO.

Read somewhere that the Canon 80D has more metal connectors when attaching to the 1.4x Extender III, than the older 7D Mark II. And for the cost of a Canon 7D Mark II, one can buy both the Canon 80D and the 1.4x Extender III.

While the Canon 7D Mark II is a better built professional camera with a higher frame rate, larger buffer, more AF points, dual card slots, etc, etc, at 896mm the lower price Canon 80D shines with AF performance and image quality.

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The AF system 80D outperforms the older 7D2 AF system in a lot of ways.  I also get a higher keeper rate with the 80D, and the 6D2, compared to the 7D2.  I haven’t used the 1.4x III very often, but it does slow down the AF system a bit.  

[ebiggs1]

"Examples here on my Instagram account"

I don't see a lot of difference between your 400mm and 100-400mm. Hard to tell your shots are so varying.  When you are comparing two lenses you need to have basically the same situation and conditions.  Distance is also critical.  Birds shot at great distances is going to be less sharp no matter what lens you use.

The new 100-400mil super zoom should have better IQ than the aging 400mm but the old guy is still a great unique lens.  Used by itself, no tel-con, it will old its own.

Another thing to remember is the extreme FL you are trying to use.  Any miscue will be magnified by the same amount as the magnification of the subject.  All the vibrations.  Any mis-focus, everything.  This is why we say getting closer is always better than getting a better lens.  The ef 400mm prime is a joy to use hand-held but with a 1.4x tel-con it isn't such a friend for hand-holding. The gull was a hand-hold shot.