Canon 600EX II-RT drops link- HELP!

[Phillyphoto]

Scenarios I have tried: 

Using Canon Transmitter ST-E3-RT as the master and (2) 600 EX II-RTs as slaves.

Using A 600EX as master and B 600EX as slave.

Using B 600EX as master and A 600EX as slave. 

I get the same result of the slave dropping link. The time varies. Sometimes it drops link in 4 mins, sometimes 10mins, sometimes 20 or more minutes. The only way to relink them is by turning everything off and back on.

All channels are the same. Yes, I have scanned for the best connection as well as every other channel and AUTO.

All IDs are the same. 

Not near a wifi-router or airport, I'm in a row home in Philadelphia. 

Using NiMh rechargeables and using freshly charged batteries for every test. Batteries are about 2 years old. 

I have spoken to 2 Canon service reps and neither of them has any idea what the problem is. I really don't have the money to spend on sending everything in for "repair". 

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Steppy]

It's good to hear your XPro-C works fine. It's a little confusing that between us we have 3 different controllers types and neither show the reported issue. Are we doing something wrong? 🙂

I wouldn't be bothered about the 1/3 stop over exposure either, but the change in light output doesn't accurately reflect the compensation added on the controller. This means if you wanted to dial in -1 stop on a second channel you might actually get -2 stops. Yes, TTL is  a bit hit and miss with multiflash anyway, and you't probably adjust until it looks right anyway, but it doesn't exactly raise my confidence in the system. Manual mode seems to be much more consistent.

On the other hand, the only confidence I had in the Canon RF system was that it was guaranteed to stop working before I was even ready to start....

I began this journey years ago with the older Elinchrom triggers (useless) before switching to the Pocket Wizard FlexTT5. The TT5s don't work with recent Canon cameras so I finally went full Canon RF. With these recent Canon issues I settled with the Phottix Laso system before partially gravitating towards Godox. That's 5 different RF trigger systems. I'm getting really frustrated with this mess.
I just hope manual flash works ok on the R5 mkII when it finally arrives.

[JLCKJC]

Well, the confusion continues. 🤔 I asked the same question I asked before, but this time specifically I asked about the XproII-C. The answer is the same as before with a little more specificity as to which Godox triggers have an incompatibility with the R5 when used in the TTL-HSS mode. Here is the email string from my communication with Godox (newest to oldest):

***********************

Dear friend,
Good day!

Right，

For Canon R5 camera, our products （includes XproC/XProIIC/X2TC etc.)  transmitters are compatible with it, but not fully compatible. <--- See earlier e-mail below for some additional details.

Let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. We are here to help.
Best wishes to you.

Best regards,

Sorry for the late reply due to the large amount of emails piled up during the holiday. Thank you for your understanding.
--------------------------------------------
Godox Service Support
[Removed 3rd party info per Community Guidelines]

***********************

My follow-up question:

发件人：
发送日期：2023-12-20 01:33:48
收件人："国外服务支持" [Removed 3rd party info per Community Guidelines]
主题：RE: Re:Xpro-C TTL Wireless Flash Trigger Question

Thank you for your reply. See my original question at the end of this email. Does the same incompatibility issue also happen with the Xpro-II C?

Jim

***********************

Answer to my original question:

From: 国外服务支持 <[Removed 3rd party info per Community Guidelines]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2023 7:58 PM
To: 
Subject: Re:Xpro-C TTL Wireless Flash Trigger Question

Thank you for your interest in our products.

For Canon R5 camera, our products （includes XproC）are compatible with it, but not fully compatible.

That is, there is an incompatible issue when using the wireless TTL mode and the HSS function simultaneously.

Perhaps there are camera limitations or compatibility issues to resolve.
Apparently, it is not an easy technical question for us, but there is no doubt that we are devoted to improving Godox's user experience.

Our technicians are still working on this problem and trying to find a solution.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused. I appreciate your cooperation and understanding.
Wishing you a good weekend!

***********************

So, as far as Godox is concerned there is an incompatibility issue with the R5 and their newest triggers in combined TTL-HSS operation. If you are not using TTL and HSS together you should be OK but if you are you might want to test the system prior to purchase for use with the R5 and similar Canon mirrorless cameras.

[BillWayToday]

Since I own a spectrum analyzer I figured why not...  so I can say with confidence that 2.4GHz is crowded like Interstate 90 in Chicago at rush hour.  This is true even after I disabled the 2.4GHz band on my house router.  Some portable (not cellular) phones use an adjacent band (1.9GHz) and those signals are, in my case, exceptionally dirty. 

Canon uses 15 frequencies starting at 2.405GHz (Ch 1) and up by .005GHz to 2.475 (Ch 15).  Spacing is 5MHz which should far exceed the bandwidth of a (clean) digital signal. 

Using the "Scan" function is unlikely to be helpful unless you run it several times and find a consistently good channel (the spectrum analyzer solves that problem by "listening" over several minutes and accumulating the data).  Most of the interfering signals come-and-go and "Scan" captures only one instant in time which may not be indicative of your total RF environment.  You can emulate my SA by doing multiple scans.  

Why the digital data (4-digit code) would matter I have no clue but what-the-heck.  I'll change from my birthday to 9999 and say a prayer to the camera gods.  

Maybe this is a plot by Westcott to make us all change to continuous light.  

[JLCKJC]

Thank you for your testing and report. It further suggests that EMI in the frequency band is the issue with the Canon triggers. Why other manufacturers products work much better, and Canon's don't remains a mystery. And why Canon keeps introducing products with this weakness is also a mystery. To preserve my Canon investment for the time being I obtained a Godox trigger and three receivers to which my Canon 600EX RTs are mounted. This workaround works fine in the environments in which the Canon system failed to remain linked over and over.

[BillWayToday]

The fact that the connection drops upon interference is fine with me... AS LONG AS THE UNIT AUTOMATICALLY RESETS AND RECONNECTS.   To me, this is a software issue which should be within the power of the smart people at Canon to remedy.  Apparently not today (and tomorrow isn't looking any better).    

Meanwhile I'm trying an LED continuous light solution pending a possible Godox purchase.  I have FIVE Canon speedlites so any expense is times 5.  

[halocastle]

For those who don't know, Westcott also make speedlights/strobes that are RT (Canon radio) compatible (their FJ wireless system): I have no experience with them, just the gen 1 trigger (which I didn't care for).

As for the Chinese flashes, FCC part 15 requires devices to accept interference, "...including interference that may cause undesired operation."  I would suspect they are out of compliance.

[JLCKJC]

On the Westcott site they also mention that Canon users have reported dropped links using the RT system as reported in this forum. They even provide a link as I recall. Westcott does not guarantee that their emulation of the RT system is any better than the native Canon RT system. Also, regarding your FCC comment, I believe that part 15 is pretty vague in that it says it requires devices to "accept interference" but it does not explicitly say they should operate properly under the circumstances.

[halocastle]

One more point, the EL series speedlites are firmware updatable via newer camera bodies (recalls are expensive). If issue "x" can be fixed via firmware, then a fix could be in the works.  Canon just released the EL-10 to replace the 430EX III-RT so all of their current speedlites are EL series.

I've used and really liked the Yonguo YN622C flash triggers. They're transceivers so they do double duty and have a hot shoe and you can continue to use whatever TTL flashes you currently own.

P.S. Most of the "tips" concerning how to address RT issues came from the Godox forums (I know, since read them and posted here), so there is no panacea in the 2.4 world.

[onlysublime]

thank you so much for your detailed tips!  I had no idea "Canon" and "Canon RT" were different things.  Originally I had the Canon ST-E3-RT transmitter and the 600EX II RT flashes (a pair).  Worked great but decided to buy a bigger lamp in the form of the Westcott FJ400.  Well, the ST-E3-RT worked fine with the FJ400 but the connection was very finicky.  Once you got it connected, it was stable but initial connection was finicky.  So I picked up the Westcott FJ-X3 transmitter and couldn't get it to connect to the Canon flashes at all until I saw your post!  The Westcott FJ-X3 to the FJ400 was quick to connect and had a flawless connection in my uses.  I'm so glad I saw your post because I was going to use the FJ-X3 with the FJ400 while using the ST-E3-RT with the Canon flashes.  But now I'll just keep the Canon transmitter as a backup.

[tseager]

I had great success with the Canon system for years. Seven flashes and a controller, with lighting modifiers that matched. 

I could not get them to work for more than three minutes at a time, at which point I’d need to power cycle all flashes. 

I eventually moved to Westcott. More power, lower build quality, but they are 95% reliable, as opposed to 10%.