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Why are these photos blurry?

dtrachtman
Contributor

I have a Canon Rebel T3i. I have taken a number of group photos w/tripod, w/o tripod, w/flash, w/o flash, various apertures, many on automatic mode. All on autofocus. All of them come out fuzzy, especially the people on the ends. The attached might look ok small on this web page, but if you download it and look at it 100% you will see what I mean. I have two T3i cameras and they both yield the same results. I would probably get a better photo with a phone. Any ideas?

 

IMG_1424.jpg

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION


@dtrachtman wrote:

The lens is a Canon EF 18-135. Photos taken at shutter speeds from 1/8 to 1/250 and f3.5 - f9.0. Why does the fact that the ends are blurrier imply this is a poor quality lense? What type of lens should I buy? thanks


The 18-135 has a pretty good reputation, but for this purpose you'd be using it at the wide end. Lenses with a long zoom range (and yours is fairly long) tend to be sharper in the middle of their range than at the ends. The ends of your group are blurry because sharpness falls off as the subject gets farther from the center of the lens. More expensive lenses tend to do a better job of minimizing that effect. 1/8 of a second will usually work if you're using a tripod, but it's too slow for this kind of picture, because the subjects will move around. I wouldn't use anything slower than 1/160 for group pictures, the only exception being when a flash is providing most of the light. For group pictures I normally use the Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS on a 7D body. That lens is very good and cheaper than it used to be. Whether that lens would solve your problem, I don't know. Maybe you could rent or borrow one and try it. Note that although you'd still be using it at the wide end, it doesn't have to worry about being sharp at 135 mm.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

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23 REPLIES 23

If you can get the image straight out of the camera (unaltered by any other program) you can open the image in Canon Digital Photo Professional.  Right click the image and this opens a pop-up menu.  Select "AF Point" and this will turn on an overlay indicating which AF points were used to focus the image.

 

I normal force my cameras to use a specific AF point (or sometimes a zone as the pro bodies with more AF point can do) but here's an example taken with my 5D II a few years back which has the same 9 point AF system.  This camera was allowed to auto-select the AF point, and here's a screen-capture of the DPP window to show you what it displays:

 

Screen Shot 2015-08-04 at 3.43.17 PM.png

The black squares represent the positions of the AF points, but the squares shown in RED indicate which points the camera actually used when locking focus.

 

The camera will evaluate all available AF points to determine if it can lock focus with them and, of those, it will select the AF point that can lock focus using the closest focusing distance.  In this particular example, the closest point would have been located near the "knee" of the lady seated at lower left.  But instead it selected points near her chest and hip which it evaluated to be "about the same".   The selection of the focus point isn't necessarily 100% reliable (but you do see these points blink in the viewfinder).  To get more reliable focus point selection, force the camera to use the point you want to use for focus.

 

Note that it is possible to lock focus, then recompose the camera framing -- which would mean that the AF point used to lock focus is no longer in front of the subject used when locking focus (because the photographer recomposed the shot after locking focus.)  So if you use the "focus and recompose" technique then displaying the AF points wouldn't be a reliable way to identify what the camera used to lock focus.

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da

Good point, but I thought I always try to make sure the red dots focus on people in the middle of the group. This website won't let me upload the images because they are too big, but you can download them here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/748wz6oas03m3wh/IMG_1991.JPG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xn6eejsq6dhdjq/IMG_1994.JPG?dl=0

 

I have taken dozens of group shots and they all turn out like this. I guess it's possible that it always focused wrong.

Thanks for all this great feedback. My last reply was before I saw all of this. I have tried different apertures and always got the same result. I bought a more powerful flash and the Tokina 11-16 lens and hopefully between these things it will also improve. I will also always force a specific focus location like you all suggested. thanks again


@dtrachtman wrote:

Thanks for all this great feedback. My last reply was before I saw all of this. I have tried different apertures and always got the same result. I bought a more powerful flash and the Tokina 11-16 lens and hopefully between these things it will also improve. I will also always force a specific focus location like you all suggested. thanks again


You could have a problem with the Tokina, because it's too wide for most flashes. You might get acceptable results with bounce flash and a diffuser, but I've always regarded my 11-16 as pretty much an outdoor lens only.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

Wow, that would have never occurred to me. All these group shots that I am asked to take are inside. Ok, I will experiment and see what happens.

Big groups typically need more than one flash and typically you want the flash to be softened.  

 

That means you almost want:

 

  • Two (or more) flashes (preferably radio controlled such as the Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT, but you can use third party flash and buy a trigger and a receivers.)
  • A trigger.  If using Canon, you can use the Canon ST-E3-RT on-camera trigger (that's a radio trigger that can control either the 600EX-RT flashes or the 430EX III-RT flashes -- that trigger ONLY does radio so it cannot control non-radio flashes.)
  • A couple of light stands
  • A couple of soft-boxes.  I have the Lastolite EzyBox Speedlite version.  Whereas many soft-boxes require putting the flash inside the softbox, these softboxes are designed to be mobile (easy to setup and take down quickly) but the flash mounts on a bracket behind the softbox and the head of the flash is positioned through a whole in the back.   Westcott makes something called the "RapidBox" which is a similr idea (possibly better -- I haven't tried theirs) but again... flash is on a bracket behind the softbox and fires into the softbox through a hole in the back.   Westcott's version has an optional beauty-dish-like attachment so the flash fires into a round shiny disk which bounces light outward into the sides of the softbox -- which then reflects forward toward your subjects.  The Lastolite box doesn't have this so you can get a bit of a "hot spot" in the soft box.  They have an extra diffusion panel that can go on the inside of the box to soften the hot-spot but each diffusion panel eats a bit of light.

If you need extra light, it is possible to mount multiple flashes on a single stand (like the Westcott "Triple Threat" speedlite bracket) and they all fire synchronously -- boosting the light output and speeding the recycle times.

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da


@TCampbell wrote:

Big groups typically need more than one flash and typically you want the flash to be softened.  

 

That means you almost want:

 

  • Two (or more) flashes (preferably radio controlled such as the Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT, but you can use third party flash and buy a trigger and a receivers.)
  • A trigger.  If using Canon, you can use the Canon ST-E3-RT on-camera trigger (that's a radio trigger that can control either the 600EX-RT flashes or the 430EX III-RT flashes -- that trigger ONLY does radio so it cannot control non-radio flashes.)
  • A couple of light stands
  • A couple of soft-boxes.  I have the Lastolite EzyBox Speedlite version.  Whereas many soft-boxes require putting the flash inside the softbox, these softboxes are designed to be mobile (easy to setup and take down quickly) but the flash mounts on a bracket behind the softbox and the head of the flash is positioned through a whole in the back.   Westcott makes something called the "RapidBox" which is a similr idea (possibly better -- I haven't tried theirs) but again... flash is on a bracket behind the softbox and fires into the softbox through a hole in the back.   Westcott's version has an optional beauty-dish-like attachment so the flash fires into a round shiny disk which bounces light outward into the sides of the softbox -- which then reflects forward toward your subjects.  The Lastolite box doesn't have this so you can get a bit of a "hot spot" in the soft box.  They have an extra diffusion panel that can go on the inside of the box to soften the hot-spot but each diffusion panel eats a bit of light.

If you need extra light, it is possible to mount multiple flashes on a single stand (like the Westcott "Triple Threat" speedlite bracket) and they all fire synchronously -- boosting the light output and speeding the recycle times.

 


<guffaw!>  If I tried to set up equipment like that to capture the participants after a City Council Inauguration or Outstanding Employee Awards ceremony, I'd be laughed right out of the hall. Group photographs are already enough like herding cats, even under the best of circumstances.

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA


@RobertTheFat wrote:

<guffaw!>  If I tried to set up equipment like that to capture the participants after a City Council Inauguration or Outstanding Employee Awards ceremony, I'd be laughed right out of the hall. Group photographs are already enough like herding cats, even under the best of circumstances.


I'm guessing you are probably not familiar with the EzyBox.  It's specifically designed to be a highly portable softbox (not as bulky to setup as a regular softbox).  They're often mounted on a monopod isntead of a light stand and held by a human assistant specifically to be mobile (intended for location shoots - not for studio use.)

 

But... If the "point" of the gathering is to get the photo (and it sounds like it is) then having supplemental lighting would be no big deal.

 

All my large group shots at weddings were done with a live human holding the "side light" (no light stands) because the live persons is infinitely more mobile and they know where to hold and point the light.  But... I've seen photographers who don't have an assistant setup light stands.  At a wedding, I don't like the delay of having to set them up and take them down (it's not that much of a delay... but considering the number of times the bride & groom will have their photo taken on that particular day, I try to minimize the amount of time involved.)

 

But this sounds different.  It sounds like these people are coming together SPECIFICALLY to get a group photo.

 

Bob, just because YOU haven't used a setup like this, doesn't mean others have not used it successfully and... staring a response with "<guffaw!>" as if you think this is a joke -- which makes me question your professionalism and your experience.

 

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da


@TCampbell wrote:

@RobertTheFat wrote:

<guffaw!>  If I tried to set up equipment like that to capture the participants after a City Council Inauguration or Outstanding Employee Awards ceremony, I'd be laughed right out of the hall. Group photographs are already enough like herding cats, even under the best of circumstances.


I'm guessing you are probably not familiar with the EzyBox.  It's specifically designed to be a highly portable softbox (not as bulky to setup as a regular softbox).  They're often mounted on a monopod isntead of a light stand and held by a human assistant specifically to be mobile (intended for location shoots - not for studio use.)

 

But... If the "point" of the gathering is to get the photo (and it sounds like it is) then having supplemental lighting would be no big deal.

 

All my large group shots at weddings were done with a live human holding the "side light" (no light stands) because the live persons is infinitely more mobile and they know where to hold and point the light.  But... I've seen photographers who don't have an assistant setup light stands.  At a wedding, I don't like the delay of having to set them up and take them down (it's not that much of a delay... but considering the number of times the bride & groom will have their photo taken on that particular day, I try to minimize the amount of time involved.)

 

But this sounds different.  It sounds like these people are coming together SPECIFICALLY to get a group photo.

 

Bob, just because YOU haven't used a setup like this, doesn't mean others have not used it successfully and... staring a response with "<guffaw!>" as if you think this is a joke -- which makes me question your professionalism and your experience.

 


Cut it out, Tim. I wasn't ridiculing your response; I was just laughing at the uncertainty of its applicability to the situations I face. Surely you must realize the respect in which your detailed and well thought out responses are held by the members of this forum. Most of us have written comments to that effect from time to time; and if you write a book, we'll all buy it.

 

Possibly the OP has the luxury of a dedicated occasion for group pictures, but I rarely do. Mine are almost always at the end of a ceremonial occasion that I've already photographed, with the participants milling around with their families or co-workers and/or itching to flee the scene. Anything that interferes with the process of getting them on the podium together and reeling off as many shots as they'lll stand still for, is a non-starter.  Smiley Happy

Bob
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA

I am the designated photographer at a big conference that my organization puts on and have to run from spot to spot and usually have little notice when a group will want a group shot. I don't have a helper, so it would be hard for me to carry around much more than a camera, extra lens, and a tripod. Maybe if I have more notice I can use some of the additional items you have mentioned. I can see why it would produce a better, more professional looking result.

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