When will canon fix the focus issues with the 70D?

[Photogirl55]

I was "T.H.I.S." close to buying the 70D.  I have read WAYYY too many posts about issues with the focusing on the 70D.  How is Canon handling the issue?  I would love to buy this camera, but not willing to gamble with that much money.

[TTMartin]

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@jeffandellie wrote:

Exactly.... you have to wonder if he owns one, and even more, what his agenda is when so steadfastly sticks to the notion that all these issues are "user" problems. if .01 to .1 percent of the bodies have an issue - it's common manufacturing anomaly, but when you get the volume of these - in Germany it looks like 20 or 30 percent (I saw a comment on the number/%, but don't remember) then you have to admit there is an issue - and of course, the whole firmware thing is very fishy. why is there different versions of firmware 1.1.1???

here are links to the first two test pics i took that lead me to contact canon, who then had me take a series of photos as per their specific settings, which I did. These pics were taken on a tripod, no change in settings between except to change the focus, first in viewfinder center square, then in live view. (Hopefully this sight supports links)

https://www.facebook.com/jeffandellie/media_set?set=a.10204662252970438.1073741849.1059032902&type=3

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The problem experienced in Germany was not that LiveView was sharper than the phase detect AF, which is perfectly normal if correctable by micro focus adjustment. But that after micro focus adjusting the center f/2.8 AF point, the remaining 18 f/5.6 AF phase detect AF points were out of focus. That was a real issue and appears to have been isolated to that group of cameras shipped to Germany.

As for your issue: You are using a 3rd party Sigma lens. Sigma lenses are known for their calibration issues. When I first purchased my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 it required a +15 MFA on my 50D. When I got my 7D it required a +20 MFA, when Canon came out with Firmware 2.0 for the 7D my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 was beyond the range of MFA adjustment on my 7D. I sent the lens to Sigma and the calibrated it for free under their 4 year warranty. When I got it back it required 0 MFA on my 7D and was also spot on with all my other Canon cameras.

First try and MFA adjust your lenses! I would suggest using the DotTune method. If after MFA your lenses at the wide and long end, all your lenses are beyond or near the end of the MFA range your camera needs to be sent into Canon for calibration.

If the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 is the only lens you are having issues with, I would suggest you send it to Sigma, or purchase the Sigma USB dock and calibrate it yourself.

Again, it is perfectly normal for LiveView focus to differ from your viewfinder's phase detect  AF system, provided it is correctable by micro focus adjustement. To help you understand please read this article by Roger Cicala at lensrentals.com - "This lens is soft" and other myths

[Molybdo42]

I'm not blaming user error, I'm just telling you what I found and I must say that none of the old timers with full frame camera would have encountered a similar issue, because for them 24 mm is ultra wide...

I also have the 18-35 art and 24 1.4 from Sigma. Both lenses gave me bad results on a 70D. Except that, when exposed to similar situations, I obtained similar results on a 60D.

Of course at first I tried micro focus adjust like crazy, until I found out that wide angle lenses are problematic. I accepted that, moved to zone focus, and now my pictures are sharper.

Also, knowing that wide angle lenses don't play well with AF beyond several meters allowed me to mfa the lens more precisely. Before I would go as high as +20 on the 18-35 mm focused at infinity, now I found that I only needed +5 at 18mm and -1 at 35 mm. The best way to mfa on that Sigma lens is to get the sigma dock, aim at a black and white target at 2 meters, use liveview to manually focus on the target, and perform AF (use "AF quick" mode !) while looking at the distance scale, then adjust mfa to compensate.

If you have the occasion, you should try the lens on another body, you will see that in similar situation you will have focus issues with pictures not as sharp as Liveview.

Having said that I still find it strange that you have an issue 35 or 50 mm (I don't have fast zoom lens so can't test that with my gear). Maybe you should try what I said and also post a picture so I can see what you are speaking about (your facebook link doesn't work).

[Molybdo42]

One thing, when you sent your camera to Canon, did you send the lenses with the body ?

Do you need to mfa on all your lenses or only on some lenses ?

How does focus behave at 20 meters and at both ends of the zoom range on your Canon lenses : 24-105, 70-300 and on the 18-135 stm ? (do the test during daylight aim at the brightest and most contrasted element visible with nothing in between the camera and the target, use center focus point)

[70Downer]

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@TTMartin wrote:

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The problem experienced in Germany was not that LiveView was sharper than the phase detect AF, which is perfectly normal if correctable by micro focus adjustment. But that after micro focus adjusting the center f/2.8 AF point, the remaining 18 f/5.6 AF phase detect AF points were out of focus. That was a real issue and appears to have been isolated to that group of cameras shipped to Germany.

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Stop spreading BS misinformation.  A potn poll showed that well over 10% of the 70D's on that forum were having focus problems. Very few if any were german camera's. I know mine wasn't and it went into canon 3 times before they finally got it fixed. 

I dont know what you call an acceptable failure rate for a $1000.00 canera is, but any thing over 1% is HORRENDOUS. The 70D has been a problem body since it came out. MANY of the units have focus problems in phase detect mode with wider then 2.8 aperture and almost EVERY single one has the bounce flash issue. The only thing worse then the shoddy canon quality control is absolute refusal to admit ther is a problem and help the people who got shafted with one of the MANY bad copies.

I guaranty you that if you had one of those camera's in that 10%  you wouldnt be singing the "failure is normal" song.

[TTMartin]

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@70Downer wrote:

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@TTMartin wrote:

The problem experienced in Germany was not that LiveView was sharper than the phase detect AF, which is perfectly normal if correctable by micro focus adjustment. But that after micro focus adjusting the center f/2.8 AF point, the remaining 18 f/5.6 AF phase detect AF points were out of focus. That was a real issue and appears to have been isolated to that group of cameras shipped to Germany.

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Stop spreading BS misinformation.  A potn poll showed that well over 10% of the 70D's on that forum were having focus problems. Very few if any were german camera's. I know mine wasn't and it went into canon 3 times before they finally got it fixed. 

I dont know what you call an acceptable failure rate for a $1000.00 canera is, but any thing over 1% is HORRENDOUS. The 70D has been a problem body since it came out. MANY of the units have focus problems in phase detect mode with wider then 2.8 aperture and almost EVERY single one has the bounce flash issue. The only thing worse then the shoddy canon quality control is absolute refusal to admit ther is a problem and help the people who got shafted with one of the MANY bad copies.

I guaranty you that if you had one of those camera's in that 10%  you wouldnt be singing the "failure is normal" song.

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You have to understand that 10% of people saying they have focus issues, does NOT mean that 10% of the cameras are deffective.

With in days of the 5Ds and 5Ds R being announced over on DPReview there were over 50 people who said they use to own it. There are a few beta testers over there, but, not 50.

There is a poster above who is convinced he has the center AF point issue reported in Germany with his 70D and 25-105 f/4L IS, 70-300, and 18-135 IS STM. I can say with absolute certainly that he does not have the center AF point issue reported in Germany when using those lenses.

An thus we have the dilemma of sorting out people with actual issues, like the poster whose calibration was so far off it was beyond the MFA range.

Those whose issue is the lens not the camera.

Those that just don't understand the AF system.

And those with malintent who just want to flame the fires.

Suddenly your 10% becomes a much, much smaller number.

I don't know the details of the issue you had with your camera. But, the issue is not as wide spread as you imagine. 

Oh and by the way, as for singing a different song if I had to micro focus adjust my lenses. I've had to MFA some of my lenses with every camera I own since purchasing my first Canon 50D with it  almost 7 years ago. Having to micro focus adjust does not mean a camera is defective.

[KeithR]

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@70Downer wrote:

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Stop spreading BS misinformation.  A potn poll showed that well over 10% of the 70D's on that forum were having focus problems. 

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Nope.

It was 10% of those that clicked the poll - a self-selecting bias if ever there was one. My 70D is superb, I'm on POTN, but I never saw the poll...

And then we deal with all the "what ifs" TT mentions...

Besides - and this is a question I've asked umpteen times without getting a straight answer from the anti 70D lobby.

There's all this noise about the 70D having a particular AF problem with the lens at f/2.8 or wider.

All DSLRs meter and focus with the lens wide open: so every single image taken with an f/2.8 or wider lens is focused at f/2.8 or wider, no matter how much the lens is stopped down.

How can that be? How can an AF problem exist at f/2.8 but go away at f/5.6, if every shot is actually taken at f/2.8?

I'll tell you: because there's no f/2.8 AF problem. Every example I've ever seen of this "problem" was actually a misunderstanding about DoF, pure and simple.

And yet here you are. rolling the same drivel out yet again. And you have the nerve to tell TT to stop spreading "BS misinformation"!   

[KeithR]

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@jeffandellie wrote:

 

Why do you not believe that there was an issue, as reported by many thousands of users

"Thousands of users"?

Heh! Seriously? What on Earth do you base that preposterous (made-up) figure on?

[KeithR]

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@Molybdo42 wrote:

I must say that none of the old timers with full frame camera would have encountered a similar issue, because for them 24 mm is ultra wide...

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More made-up "facts"...

[Molybdo42]

@TTMartin : I don't understand why you want to limit the focus issue to that case in Germany.

The 70D simply has poor AF with fast wide angle lenses, same thing for the 7D.

Look at this forum http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3100.0

One user of the 7D and Canon's 24mm 1.4 L, found out that his camera could only work well in certain lightning conditions.

If the main shooting style of the users complaining here is to do night photography with the 70D, then they will get very inconsistent results. Unfortunately no one warned them and, like I did, fell into the trap now I need to find a work around. But if your shooting style is to do daytime photography then you won't notice any issue.

According to the forum I cited, the best solution would be to go full frame : better QC (?), better lowlight performance, less need for ultrawide angle to obtain the same field of view.

@KeithR : this above is what I meant when saying "I must say that none of the old timers with full frame camera would have encountered a similar issue, because for them 24 mm is ultra wide". At night, on a full frame camera, I would mainly use a 35 or a 50mm , not a 24 or 30 mm...

For example : my Sigma 24 1.4 art focuses extremely well in broad sunlight. Strange thing is : It seems very inconsistent at dusk and gets better under street light, but I have to aim at very wide (at least 1/3 of the focus mark in VF) bright spots. Can the 70D AF be affected by stray light ?

Unfortunately I bought the 24 1.4 for nightime photography, and since in that situation I'm uncertain of it's performance (haven't clearly identified the ideal situation for AF to work), I end up doing manual or zone focus at night.

[TTMartin]

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@Molybdo42 wrote:

@TTMartin : I don't understand why you want to limit the focus issue to that case in Germany.

The 70D simply has poor AF with fast wide angle lenses, same thing for the 7D.

Look at this forum http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3100.0

One user of the 7D and Canon's 24mm 1.4 L, found out that his camera could only work well in certain lightning conditions.

If the main shooting style of the users complaining here is to do night photography with the 70D, then they will get very inconsistent results. Unfortunately no one warned them and, like I did, fell into the trap now I need to find a work around. But if your shooting style is to do daytime photography then you won't notice any issue.

According to the forum I cited, the best solution would be to go full frame : better QC (?), better lowlight performance, less need for ultrawide angle to obtain the same field of view.

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The German issue seemed to be a real issue that should not be occurring with the camera. It was misinterpreted by some photo bloggers who put out some bad information. That being that phase detect AF (viewfinder) should be just as sharp as LiveView straight out of the box. That started the myth that their is some systemic problem with the AF of the 70D. LiveView and phase detect AF (viewfinder) use different sensors for auto focus. It is perfectly normal for you to need to micro focus adjust lenses to get them to obtain their maximum sharpness.

I followed the link you provided, from what I read certain copies of that lens can give inconsistent results with multiple Canon bodies. It certainly doesn't indicate that their is a specific problem with the 70D.

One thing to note is that many of the reports of 70D having AF issues mention the EF 50mm f/1.8 II. That lens is a 25 year old design with marginal build quality. It never was a strong AF performer on any camera. Now that Canon has released the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM lens, I expect the number people complaining about AF problems will drop. So in a way Canon did fix the 70D AF issue, they replaced the EF 50mm f/1.8 II with the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM.