What zoom to buy?

[Norm53]

I put up a bird feed at the edge of a woods about 80 feet from my lunch table behind a french door. My Canon EOS Rebel T3i with EF 75-300 mm 1:4-5.6 will not bring into focus the birds, large and small.

What lens do I need to buy that will do the job? Cost is no object.

Thanks, Norm

[Norm53]

"This is 25 feet with the big Siggy and Mk IV.  600mm and croppped to nearly 100%."

I don't understand how you are using the word "cropped". Are you manipulating the lens or photo in some way?

Norm

PS. I understand that "to crop" means "to cut or curb".

[ebiggs1]

"I don't understand how you are using the word "cropped". Are you manipulating the lens or photo in some way?"

Cropped is a term used to indicate the photo was edited in Photoshop.  You can 'crop' to a percentage if you want to.  The bird was cropped to 100% (approx.).   100% is considered pixel level. To do this you pick out a section of the original shot and enlarge it to 100%.  You discard the unwanted area.  There are other less expensive options to Photoshop.  Some are even free.

Here is my favorite saying, "Photography is 1/2 camera/lens (gear), 1/2 post editor and 1/2 you.  As you get further into photography you will come to understand this more!  

There is another aspect that no one has mentioned yet.  That is post editing.  If you do not do this you are unlikely to ever get really good photos.  You should also be shooting with RAW quality.  Not jpg.

[Norm53]

"There is another aspect that no one has mentioned yet.  That is post editing.  If you do not do this you are unlikely to ever get really good photos.  You should also be shooting with RAW quality.  Not jpg."

So to get the best pics, I need to set the image recording quality to "raw" and then edit with my Corel Paint Shop Pro. Got it.

Good news: Just actually measured the distance from feeder station to camera; it was 64', not 80'. That will help.

Norm

[ebiggs1]

"So to get the best pics, I need to set the image recording quality to "raw" and then edit with my Corel Paint Shop Pro. Got it."

I can not comment on how well Corel works or not.  I wasn't even aware it was still around until another friend of mine said he uses it.  Might be fine.  I dont' know.  I use Photoshop and Lightroom and they are the ony ones I actually know.  There is the lesser version called Photoshop Elements.  I would be inclined to use it over Corel.  But that is just me.

If you buy the 7D Mk II, you will get the free DPP4 from Canon.  It is a basic, pretty crude, editor.

"Good news: Just actually measured the distance from feeder station to camera; it was 64', not 80'. That will help."

Every little bit helps!

[Norm53]

"It is just a matter of distance.  Close is better than long focal lengths."

So how do you get so close w/o scaring away the birds?

Norm

[ebiggs1]

"So how do you get so close w/o scaring away the birds?"

Just be very quiet and still.  I have a deer blind but it is boring! I don't use it anymore. I didn't even like it for deer hunting.

[TCampbell]

I'm not a birder, but a friend of mine is.  There are numerous articles and videos on how birders get their shots.

The "purists" do it the hard way -- which means they find the birds in the wild and and photograph them in their own environment.  This might involve locating their nests, etc. and carefully setting up a camera trained on the right spot and waiting for them to return.

Some photographers will "stage" the "natural environment" by getting an attracive tree branch (no longer attached to a tree) and setting it in the location where they'll get a clean shot... then playing audio-recordings of the bird's mating call to attract birds to the branch.  The "purists" believe this is cheating.

The bird feeder seems to be way down on the pecking order (pardon the pun)... because it's not even as involved as staging something to look natural (feeders don't look natural so those shots are less desirable.)  But it occurs to me that I have heard of people staging the ornamental branch close to the feeder and arranging the camera angle so that the feeder is technically out of frame.  Birds tend to get territorial and protective of "their" feeder... and wont allow other birds to perch at the feeder until the more aggressive bird finishes eating.  So the other birds will wait their turn on a nearby branch.  If you supply said ideally-located branch, then the birds you want to photograph and somewhat likely to perch on it and you can get the bird without ending up with a bird photograph with the feeder in the shot.

If you remotely trigger the camera, then you can get that camera pointed at your staged branch -- and it can be pretty close.  You'd probably want to protect the camera otherwise the bird might decide that the camera itself makes a good perch and you probably don't want bird droppings on your camera.

While cameras such as the 70D and 6D have built-in wifi and you can use a phone to trigger them, you an get wireless remote triggers in a range of prices and capabilities.  One of the nicer solutions I've seen is a device called a CamRanger.  It's about the size of a mobile phone and it connects to the camera via USB (it's battery powered).  You install software either on your phone, tablet, or computer -- which connects to and controls the camera.  You basically have ALL of the capabilites that you'd have if you used Canon's own utilities (e.g. like doing a remote control / tethered shooting session using EOS Utility on your computer).   You get a live video feed of what the camera sees.  You can focus, set exposure, shoot, download the images, etc. and it's all wireless.

[Norm53]

For a non-birder, you sure know a lot about shooting birds! At the very least, you have shown that the subject is infinitely complex. However, as a novice, I expect that most of my early shots will be through the french door to the feeder.

"While cameras such as the 70D and 6D have built-in wifi and you can use a phone to trigger them, you an get wireless remote triggers in a range of prices and capabilities."

I had forgotten about the trigger, which is important because I can then fire away all day and sort through the results later on my computer. (Can't recognize the small birds at 64' through the glass.) To keep things simple, a tripod with a trigger and the 7D Mk II with a trigger connection are essential. Do the tripod and camera (see list below) have those assets? If not, how to remedy these deficiencies?

Current shopping list:

7D Mk II camera w/battery & charger $1500 (B&H)
64 GB memory card $75 (B&H)
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 lens $780 (B&H)
Sigma 600mm lens $1090 (B&H)
MT055X tripod $249 (B&H)
gimbal head $185 (B&H)

electronic trigger ???

Norm

[ebiggs1]

"The "purists" do it the hard way -- which means they find the birds in the wild and and photograph them in their own environment.  This might involve locating their nests, etc. and carefully setting up a camera trained on the right spot and waiting for them to return."

This is the boring way that I was telling you about!

"Some photographers will "stage" the "natural environment" by getting an attracive tree branch (no longer attached to a tree) and setting it in the location where they'll get a clean shot..."

Then there is Photoshop.   Put the bird and branch, whatever, whenever, wherever you want them!

"The "purists" believe this is cheating."

I am sure they would.  But I will never tell. 

"Current shopping list:"

7D Mk II camera w/battery & charger $1500 (B&H)<--- fantastic
64 GB memory card $75 (B&H) <---- No good, get several 16gb CF cards not one big 64gb.
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 lens $780 (B&H)<---- fantastic.
Sigma 600mm lens $1090 (B&H)<---- Your choice, consider the dock if you choose the Siggy.  Requires a lot of work! 
MT055X tripod $249 (B&H)<---- fantastic.
gimbal head $185 (B&H)<---- Great for the Sigma super tele but not so good for normal camera shots with the 17-55mm.

electronic trigger ??? <---- Almost unnecessary.  I doubt you will like it and therefore will not use it.

You are going to have a killer combo anybody would be proud to own. 

[Norm53]

7D Mk II camera w/battery & charger $1500 (B&H)<--- fantastic
64 GB memory card $75 (B&H) <---- No good, get several 16gb CF cards not one big 64gb.

Will do.

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 lens $780 (B&H)<---- fantastic.
Sigma 600mm lens $1090 (B&H)<---- Your choice, consider the dock if you choose the Siggy.  Requires a lot of work! 

Don't understand why. See below for setup.

MT055X tripod $249 (B&H)<---- fantastic.
gimbal head $185 (B&H)<---- Great for the Sigma super tele but not so good for normal camera shots with the 17-55mm.

Don't understand why. See below for setup.

electronic trigger ??? <---- Almost unnecessary.  I doubt you will like it and therefore will not use it.

Need to know why. Won't disturb the camera when I press the shutter button. Seems like a natural for my setup.

The Setup:

Tripod w/gimbal & trigger and 7D w/600mm are set up a lunch table and aimed at feeders. Change elevation to shoot ground feeders. Change elevation, yaw angle and focus to shoot hummingbirds at separate 30' feeder.

In the field I use the 17-55 with the 7D, leaving the other equipment at home.

What am I missing?

Norm