Canon Vixia HF G60 - Questions on: Gain dB versus ISO - and other questions

[Casey415]

Hello. I usually use my Canon 90D and M50 DSLR cameras for shooting videos. I recently got a new Canon Vixia HF G60 from Best Buy. I'm liking it so far, but as a beginner in Canon camcorders, I have questions please.

1) I fully understand what ISO means as it relates to exposure values for DSLR and film cameras. But I have no idea how to adjust "GAIN" setting properly. Is there a way of converting GAIN values to ISO values? For example, if my Sekonic 308XU light meter gives me an incident light meter reading of f4.0 @ 1/50 @ ISO 800, what GAIN number do I use on the G60 camcorder to match my Sekonic reading for the ISO value? When I tap on the "GAIN" button on the LCD menu, I get choices ranging from 0.0dB to 39.0dB. What dB number should I use to get the equivalent of ISO 800? Is my Sekonic 308XU light meter even useful for applying exposure values on the G60 camcorder?

2) Is there a faster way of adjusting/changing audio levels while recording? The manual says to press the FUNC button on the LCD screen, which reveals more hidden menus to tap on before I can change the levels up or down. This is a bit slow and cumbersome process. Is there a better/quicker way than having to press the FUNC button and tap on more menus?

3) If I attach and use the Rode VideoMic Pro Plus external shotgun mic to the camera (the mic is self powered), do I need to turn off the microphone power setting in the camera menu? I read something in the manual about potential conflict of using a mic that is self powered versus non powered.

4) I was highly considering buying the Canon XA50 instead of the G60 because I was interested in that top handle that offers more audio/microphone features. Is it possible to buy a top handle as an optional accessory? If so, is there a buying link? In the end, I got the G60 for the $1,499 sale price versus the regular price of $2,199 for the XA50 since I'm unsure how often I would ever use the top handle audio functions.

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[Inapickle]

@Casey415

Yes, it is I who has had some dialogue with you on YouTube. Thanks for uploading that HF-G60 4K footage. Very useful. Several months back I did manage to grab a few 4K and 1080/60p clips on an XA50 in one of the camera stores in Canada, to compare with my HF-G40 at home. They didn't have one on demo but reluctantly agreed to open one of the two they had just received in stock provided I used the genuine Canon battery from the HF-G40, didn't attach the handle and didn't stray from the video counter. Only had time to test with 'normal' picture ('look') mode, autofocus and auto exposure (Program AE) with the AGC limit set to Auto and then +18db, which is what I'd normally use on my HF-G40 under those conditions - reasonably well lit showroom, dark outside. Still it gave me some sense of the image quality - native FHD on the HF-G60 was clearly superior to my HF-G40 and 4K downscaled to HD in post looked even better. The HF-G40 does pretty well in low light, but the shadows were definitely cleaner on the HF-G60.

Yes, it's a shame the HF-G60 won't be sold in Canada. Canon Canada gave me no reason for that when I inquired about the availability, but I suspect it's purely marketing strategy. The Canadian market is smaller than in the US, so I guess they decided to focus on promoting the XA50 for professionals/affluent prosumers and offer the HF-G50 for the more budget-minded consumers - I think the XA40 is also available. So, if I did go for the HF-G60 I'd have to import from the US.

I don't need XLR audio inputs and would want the Mini Advanced 'Hot' Shoe for mounting a Canon DM-100. On the XA models the 'hot' shoe is replaced by an adapter for attaching the top handle. I usually mount my HF-G40 on C-Bracket (Hague Camgrip Steadyframe) for handheld work - it can be configured to serve as a top handle for low-shots and has the headroom to mount the DM-100 mic. 

Comparing my HF-G40 alongside the XA50 (without handle) in the store they appeared to be around the same size, so I assume the HF-G60 is also. What I definitely liked about the XA50 (HF-G60) design - the dual SD card slots are now located at right top side of the camcorder body so they can be readily accessed without opening the LCD screen, and the 'Remote' jack (for connecting LANC remote controllers) has been moved to the concealed panel at the back of the right side, which is where it should be. What I was not crazy about - the 3" LCD screen - under the showroom lighting it was difficult enough to see the screen when tilted slightly, so I can only imagine what it's like in bright sunlight. Would really miss the gorgeous 3.5" OLED screen on the HF-G40.

Thanks again for uploading that 4K footage. Keep it coming.

[Casey415]

What a coincidence! Yeah, I just uploaded another 4k video with my G60. Check it out when you get a chance.

Do you have the Canon DM-100 microphone? Looks very cool, especially because it records in stereo and don't need to attach a 3.5mm cable since the rear hot shoe provides the power and connection. But I have so many microphones already, including the $300 Rode VideoMic Pro Plus, so I don't really feel like spending on yet another microphone, haha! For my needs, I will probably be using the tiny Rode Wireless Go lavalier transmitter/receiver kit, which works great for filming live speaker presentations.

It's important to get a mic close to a speaker's mouth for clear/crisp audio, as you probably already know. I also have the compact Zoom H1N audio recorder that can double as a stereo microphone if I want omni-directional stereo recording. I haven't tried that yet, but I've seen other people's videos using a Zoom recording on top of a coldshoe camera mount. I also have a Saramonic UHF wireless lav mic system as well.

I'm pretty sure I've spent just as much on microphone audio gear that I could have easily bought another camera, LOL! What I'm trying to say is that I take audio pretty seriously, even though I have no idea how to "massage" audio clips using audio editing apps, hence I try to get the audio as perfectly in-camera as possible so I don't have to do any post processing after the fact. For all the test videos I've shot using the G60 so far, I've been using the camcorder's built-in mic to test the quailty of the audio. So far I'm rather impressed by the stereo sound quality of the G60 microphone, it's quite sensitive and picks up everything from all directions, which is both good and bad.

As for the size of my G60 versus the previous G50 model, I was surprised that the G60 is noticeably larger in size. Unfortunately, I cannot compare the G60 size to the XA50 model, since the XA50 isn't available locally in my area. Yes, the new placement of the dual SD card slot is hugely better versus having to open the LCD screen. I just wish my G60 LCD screen was the larger 3.5" size versus 3.0". I noticed the G60 LCD screen has a black mask to cover a portion of the LCD screen. If there were no black mask, my G60 LCD would show 3.5" of usable screen real estate. I consider that totally lame of Canon to mask out a portion of the G60 LCD screen. That forces a consumer to spend an extra thousand more on the higher XF models to get the larger 3.5" LCD screen. Again, lame that Canon does that.  

Why do you need a "Remote jack for connecting LANC remote controllers"? My G60 comes with a portable/compact remote control for starting/stopping a video, taking a still picture, and other functions. Since I already have this compact remote control included with the G60, what benefit would a LANC port be for me? I noticed in the Canon manual that there is an optional remote control that is larger and full featured, but I don't think I need this cuz it's overkill for my needs.

As for a top handle, I know someone that has an older Canon XA camcorder with a top handle. He says he never uses the XLR audio ports on the handle. But the handle is useful for carrying the camera and using the lens zooming button. Plus the top handle makes him look more professional while filming weddings, LOL!

[Inapickle]

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@Casey415 wrote:

Do you have the Canon DM-100 microphone? Looks very cool, especially because it records in stereo and don't need to attach a 3.5mm cable since the rear hot shoe provides the power and connection.

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Yes, I have a DM-100 microphone. Doesn't quite have frequency spectrum of a Rode mic, but it's very convenient and versatile - you can switch between shotgun and stereo (90 and 120 degree) pick-up patterns and like you say just attach it to the camcorder without having to worry about cables and whether the external mic is powered on or not. Like many proprietery accessories it's quite pricey; I bought mine from a local camera store (open box sale in mint condition) for $CAN 100 years back when I had an HF-G10. Still use it a lot with my HF-G40 - sporting events especially where I'm not so bothered about capturing the full spectrum of ambient sounds - for that I use a Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro. One shortcoming of the DM-100 is that it does not have a low-cut (high-pass) filter switch and actually disables the low cut filter option in the camera menu that is normally available when connecting an external microphone to the mic jack. The' fur coat' that comes with the DM-100 provides some wind protection, but in anything more than breeze you'll get wind noise. Actually some years back I had dialogue with Rycote about producing a custom 'Windjammer' for it - they had one for the earlier DM-50 model, but not the DM-100. It got as far as producing and testing a prototype. The 'Windjammer' for the DM-50 just had a thin layer of acoustic foam in the fur lining. This one had an inner sleeve of 1" thick low density reticulated foam (as used in their 'Softie' models) with the fur coat fitted over that. Quite bulky when assembled, but the performance was excellent. Unfortuntely they decided not to put it into production because they thought there wouldn't be the demand at a profitable price point owing to the high manufacturing costs. I still have the prototype though and sometimes resort to it in strong, blustery winds. The Rode SVMP with it's 'dead kitten' fur copes quite well, up to a point. 

[Casey415]

I find the Canon microphone interesting, but I can't justify the cost of yet another mic purchase, haha! 

I personally don't use the dead cat/kitten furry thingy. I'm sure it works, just don't use it. I prefer the other material from the Rode Videomic Pro Plus.

[Inapickle]

The Rode 'dead kitten' for the RSVMP, which fits over the dome shaped foam 'windscreen' with an elasticated cuff, works quite well when facing into a prevailing wind. I also tried the Rycote 'windjammer' for it, which has an additional layer of foam in the lining, but it was a very tight fit and didn't quite cover the 'windscreen' foam completely leaving exposed gaps.  The main drawback with these slip over fur covers however is they don't protect well in blustery conditions where wind whips around the back of the microphone buffeting the exposed casing. At times I have resorted to activating the low-cut filter on the RSVMP and in the camcorder menu, which actually helped, but left the sound very thin. Better than nothing though.

[Inapickle]

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@Casey415 wrote:

Why do you need a "Remote jack for connecting LANC remote controllers"? My G60 comes with a portable/compact remote control for starting/stopping a video, taking a still picture, and other functions. Since I already have this compact remote control included with the G60, what benefit would a LANC port be for me? I noticed in the Canon manual that there is an optional remote control that is larger and full featured, but I don't think I need this cuz it's overkill for my needs.

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The WL-D89 wireless controller that comes with HF-G60 uses infrared and must be aimed at a sensor on the opened LCD screen panel. I have the same controller for my HF-G40, but rarely use it. It's OK for hands-free operation when you are standing immediately behind the camcorder mounted on a tripod, or in front of it if you flip the LCD screen. But it's not really suitable for fine zoom control whilst following action around on a tripod with a fluid head and pan handle. I tried at one point, with the remote in my left hand whilst manipulating the pan handle with my right, but you spend more time looking at the remote than the subject matter. I've seen DIY knock-ups using optical cable to direct the IR beam onto the sensor so it can be used like a wired remote, but if the camcorder has a remote jack, a good quality LANC remote controller with a zoom rocker or slider that attaches to, or is integrated with the pan handle, is really indispensable for sports videography or any situation where you need fine, dynamic zoom control. I use a Libec ZC-LP which is perfect for my needs

[Inapickle]

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@Casey415 wrote:

As for a top handle, I know someone that has an older Canon XA camcorder with a top handle........

...Plus the top handle makes him look more professional while filming weddings, LOL!

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Is that really the case now that so many professional videographers are using DSLR/Mirrorless camera's ? 

[Casey415]

This person I know shoots only videos for weddings (no stills). He uses Canon DSLRs to shoot videos. Plus uses a Canon camcorder for filming long ceremonies (to bypass the 30 minute time limit that exists for most DSLR/mirrorless cameras).

I would venture to say that filming weddings with a DSLR/mirrorless camera is the preferred method versus strictly using only a camcorder. Over 10 years ago, video technology for DSLR cameras was in its infancy, hence video quality was low to non-existent. My 20 year old Nikon D1x and Nikon D2x (both cost over $5k each for body only back then) had no video technology built-in during those days. Nowadays, I think lots of peeps use Canon, Sony, Panasonic DSLR/mirrorless cameras to shoot videos, in conjunction with fast tele lenses for that bokeh look.

For myself, I'm doing hybrid shooting, meaning a combination of stills and videos on a DSLR camera. I have lots of speedlight flash gear that are triggered by wireless remote that can only be used on a DSLR/mirrorless camera. Ever tried setting up multiple speedlight flashes for wireless flash photography using a camcorder? Pretty much impossible. My Canon camcorder doesn't even have a normal/regular size hotshoe. Not even an old style PC flash synch cord that is ancient technology from film camera days. 

Some people don't use LED lights at all for shooting videos, only ambient light. In my case, I use a variety of both speedlight flashes for studio and on-location flash photography, plus LED lights for video work. In that regard, I think I'm a bit more versatile with my lighting knowledge because I need to know how to properly light a subject either for stills or video and setup proper lighting for the situation at hand.

[McTrouble]

I am very disappointed to read your reply that the G60 is not available in Canada. I am not going to buy the old G50. I have been searching to try and find a Canadian store that sells the G60. If Canon doesn't want to sell the G60 in Canada, I will have to buy the Sony AX700. Sony seems to be fine with us Canadians! 🙂

[Inapickle]

Even if it were available in Canada I think you would likely pay more than importing from the U.S. (B&H).