Canon 600EX II-RT drops link- HELP!

[Phillyphoto]

Scenarios I have tried: 

Using Canon Transmitter ST-E3-RT as the master and (2) 600 EX II-RTs as slaves.

Using A 600EX as master and B 600EX as slave.

Using B 600EX as master and A 600EX as slave. 

I get the same result of the slave dropping link. The time varies. Sometimes it drops link in 4 mins, sometimes 10mins, sometimes 20 or more minutes. The only way to relink them is by turning everything off and back on.

All channels are the same. Yes, I have scanned for the best connection as well as every other channel and AUTO.

All IDs are the same. 

Not near a wifi-router or airport, I'm in a row home in Philadelphia. 

Using NiMh rechargeables and using freshly charged batteries for every test. Batteries are about 2 years old. 

I have spoken to 2 Canon service reps and neither of them has any idea what the problem is. I really don't have the money to spend on sending everything in for "repair". 

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[kristie]

Geeez, I'm having the same problem!  I had hoped there would be a video on setup or something.  I too invested in three  600EXII-RT's to work with the ST-E3-RT.    For me, this is a lot of money for this set up to have this kind of problem with no solution.   I tested and mine only lasts 2 mins before it disconnects or times out.  I have to turn everything off, then reconnect for it to work again.  Mine will only connect if I turn the trigger on first, then each speedlight.  A real pain.   If I turn the sppedlites on first, the trigger does not connect.  I have the same channel and ID.  I'm wondering if it has something to do with the mode.  I haven't found more information.  Please help if anyone can.  thanks!

[kristie]

oops I meant in the MODEL window

[abmoran]

This shouldn't be marked "solved."  It might give Canon the wrong idea.

[crlyhds]

If you read all the posts you may find a tip or 2 that you find helpful. Just remember that everybody's situation is different. As the commercials say at the end, "results may vary." I finally gave up and went to using infared. Until somebody in the neighborhood buys a cleaner wf-fi router. I only use multiple flashes in my garage shooting water drops, the situation is manageable. If you happen to come across a solution, please share. Good luck.

[apphoto]

I spotted this thread yesterday when I realized something really odd was going on with my 600EX-RT / ST-E3-RT v2 system.  Ever since I moved to this setup from my old ETTL, (until recently)  it's been rock solid.  Yesterday and today in my home studio (as opposed to being on-location) has been a 180 in the opposite direction (it's been about 5 mths since I've used my home studio).   I was originally on channel 5 and ID 0321 for my system.  Saw the suggestion to change to channel 15. So today, I tried that, (but left the ID as-is).   Saw the post about Apple wi-fi sound systems causing issues.  Didn't know if this translated to our Sonos, so I unplugged all of ours.  Still had gazillions of issues today with losing the link regularly to one or both of my flashes every few minutes during my client session. Very embarrassing and frustrating.  I will also try the suggested 9999 channel; however, here's my question to folks: Is there another flash system that is recommended?  I've seen references that Godox also has issues, and Yongnuo and Odin may do a better job (but ultimately will still have issues because they're still on the same 2.4 GHz spectrum).  One commenter indicated they were going to go with infared.    Any additional insights/recommendations with respect to that? Specifically, any thoughts on Radio Popper PX? I need HSS, groups (at least 3, not including any type of transmitter/flash sitting on camera), and remote control of each group from within the menus on the camera (Canon).  It sounds interesting (not cheap!), but haven't those been around for awhile? Are there any newer "kids on the block" that should also be in the mix?

[tseager]

See my response, today, to the general thread.

[tseager]

HISTORY

I have seven Canon 600EX-RT flashes. The options and radio control over the flash units is incredible. The capability and usability was second do none. I have only been able to use them in less than three minute sessions for three years. Imagine rotating around the room, reaching into soft boxes, turning the units on and off to resync.

I suspected WiFi interference. Yet, having turned my system off, I knew I could not manage my neighbor’s dozen visible hotspots. Time to find another solution…

TRANSITION

Making a move from hot shoe based modifiers would also be expensive, and took months of research. I selected Westcott strobes, which are mid weight and semi portable, but most of my artificial lighting shots are done in the studio. Knowing this, I had yet to test the Canon flashes outside. 

I took the Canon flashes for a 2.5 hour ride to purchase the Wescott strobes. One disconnect occurred at hour 2. Could have been a low battery, but the entire array did not disconnect, as continually experienced in the studio. For my units, the issue was not batteries, but interference, which was unresolvable by performing any and all of the setting gymnastics and superstitious workarounds. Could channel settings work for you? Perhaps. Good luck.

WESCOTT ONLY

Armed with an FJ-X3, two FJ400s strobes and two FJ200 strobes, I began testing options. Using the FJ-X3, I set it to “Canon” mode, and configured as per Wescott suggestions. This is a must. Although marked Canon, the devices communicate over a Wescott proprietary protocol. The initial test flash or camera flash is not always reliable (Wescott confirmed). Subsequent shooting was 95% reliable, and stayed connected for hours. The FJ-X3 takes care in connecting to the camera body. Given it’s compatible with multiple brands, the pins must line up correctly. Best to fully unscrew the lock ring, move the unit as far forward on the hotshoe, check again, hold in place, then tighten the lock ring.

WESTCOTT AND CANON

To use Canon flash units in conjunction with Westcott, you set the FJ-X3 mode to “Canon RT”, which uses the Canon protocol. Any current generation Canon camera can use either. 1) FJ-X3 to Canon flashes worked, but was less reliable than the ST-E3 to Canon flashes. 2) FJ-X3 to Wescott strobes over Canon RT was MORE reliable than what I had experienced before with the ST-E3 to Canon strobes, but eventually broke down 3) ST-E3 to Westcott Strobes over Canon RT was MORE reliable than the FJ-X3 to Canon flashes. Interesting! 4) When using Canon RT mode, Wescott strobes were finicky, but became less reliable when adding a 600EX-RT.  Lesson learned: The Canon protocol is not reliable with interference. Unfortunately, the Westcott gear in “Canon” mode is not compatible with Canon flashes in any way, unless you enable the Canon flashes with third party triggers. You must use Canon RT to do this.

The XJ-X3 and strobe menus are fairly easy to use, but are not as well laid out as Canon, and can be finicky. For example, the menu allows you to set settings outside the range of capability for a camera/flash system, in particular, with Canon RT. You must also set an RT ID for the Wescott strobes to trigger. The strobe modeling light and settings will change over the Wescott protocol, giving you a sense it’s connected. Occasionally you need to “prime” the unit by changing settings, test firing, or turning the modeling lamp off and on twice.

WESTCOTT SUPPORT

Having worked in and around technical support for decades, I will say Wescott support is stellar. They made no excuse for their own failings, worked to resolve, and didn’t lay blame on Canon. They genuinely wanted to get it all working for me. When asked directly, they did concede the Canon RT mode doesn’t work for everyone. Again, my R6 still works under “Canon”,  just not “Canon RT”.

MY PATH FORWARD

I will use Wescott gear in the studio. It works, is relatively inexpensive, and compatible. Although I’ll hang onto a 600EX-RT or two and the ST-E3 for field work, Wescott has an FJ80 flash that works with their system. Many FJ200 and FJ80 modifiers are interchangeable.

[tseager]

The solution I describe from Westcott delivers all of the above via their own radio protocol, which does work in areas of high concentration of 2.4GHz traffic. Wescott does HSS, FCS, multiple groups, ETTL. Canon produces more reliable results when it works. Wescott delivers wild results via ETTL in about 1/8 shots, but is easy to detect.
You should also be able to use infrared on Canon, but you're limited to A:B/C, and the older system signaling the other flashes.

[abmoran]

This thread as well as one I started on PPA's "The Loop" confirm that this is a problem shared by many without an identified solution.

My own testing eliminated all of the suggested cures including batteries, channel switching, code changing, turning off my home wifi, and more.  In my home, and at some customer sites the problem is 100% repeatable rendering the radio features useless in those environments.

I took the Speedlights to the park and they worked perfectly for more than an hour without dropping the link. 

I used my iPhone to check for possible wifi competition by going to "Settings>Wifi" which shows all available wifi signals.  At home I get 5 or more plus my own 3 wifi access points.  In the Park I had only one.  After I left the park I kept my speedlights on and linked and also kept my iPhone on and displaying the available wifi signals.  As long as the iPhone showed no other wifi sites the speedlights maintained their link.  But when I got back to the city and the number of signals increased, the speedlights lost their link in a matter of minutes.

San Francisco is probably a challenging environment.  It is something like the second most dense city in the US and there are a LOT of people who have wifi in their homes with an increasing number of appliances having wifi as well.  So San Francisco is probably more signal dense than most places, too.  But my guess is that the problem is going to spread to other cities as wifi becomes more common.

I spoke at length with CPP support and while they tried mightily they had nothing to offer and nothing in their database that confirmed the problem.  The rep said that they get very few speedlight complaints and nothing like this on record.  We agreed that sending the speedlights in for "repair" would probably be both expensive and fruitless.

Fortunately, for most of what I do the IR triggering works so I'm not out of business.  But that isn't why I spent the extra money to go "top of the line" with Canon RT.

I would love it if Canon came up with a fix.  Short of that it would be MUCH better if you could reset everything from the master unit whether Speedlight or ST E3 RT.  Having to run around to reset the slave units isn't reasonable.

I will continue to pursue this with Canon if I can figure out how, and will update this thread if I learn anything new.

Thanks to everyone who posted!

[halocastle]

Bob Davis, who is a "Canon Explorer of Light," uses RadioPopper when the RT system fails: "...when the radio system built into the Speedlite 600EX-RT isn't quite adequate."  So if CPP doesn't know about the issue, their head is in the sand...in other words, their head is in the sand.  The YT video below is from 2013.

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFnsLU6JV_E