Canon rumor

[John_SD]

The various tech and rumor sites are stating that their Canon sources are indicating that Canon may unveil an entry-level full-frame mirrorless, the EOS R, as early as September 5, which would be in time for Photokina later in the month.

This one is specced similarly to the enthusiast-level Nikon Z6. And the cost would be roughtly the same at around $1999. I believe the 6D II was priced at $1999 upon its release. But what is really interesting, is that according to the Canon source, the new EOS R will be able to accommodate EF lenses without an adapter. All of this is rumor, but I hope it is true. 

The Canon full-frame mirrorless flagship, to be released a couple of months later, is to compete with the pro-level Nikon Z7.

See Canon Rumors, TechRadar, PetaPixel, etc. 

[Tronhard]

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@Waddizzle wrote:
Maybe the M-Series will replace the Rebel line, and the EF-S family will be retired, instead of the EF-M.  Supporting four mounts is too many, especially when you are competing with smart phones and tablets.

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I tend to agree with this.  I suspect that the EF-S line of lenses is going to be discontinued and Canon may well not release any XXXD or even XXD models after the EOS 90D.  I think it is possible we may see a generation or two of XD bodies (rumour has an EOS7DIII coming for example), before the MILC FF bodies (capable of being cropped) take over that line.   I think the future of what was crop sensor bodies will go with the EF-M mount and the M series bodies, but we shall have to wait and see...

[kvbarkley]

I won't link but Ken Rockwell got to use one and has a good review on his site.

Highlights:

Shutter count is shown in the battery info screen. 8^P

New Fv mode, just like P, but lets you lock down various parameters.

Top LCD is dot-matrix.

AF over the whole sensor

The viewfinder shows the results of lens corrections and optimizer.

[Waddizzle]

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@kvbarkley wrote:

I won't link but Ken Rockwell got to use one and has a good review on his site.

Highlights:

Shutter count is shown in the battery info screen. 8^P

New Fv mode, just like P, but lets you lock down various parameters.

Top LCD is dot-matrix.

AF over the whole sensor

The viewfinder shows the results of lens corrections and optimizer.

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It also has a similar type of in-body image stabilization as the 6D Mark II, which only works in video mode.

I am willing to bet anyone lunch that it has focus peaking when you are shooting stills using Live View mode

[RexGig]

Well, I am not seeing any reason to buy into this first generation of the EOS R. The lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, just about rules-out my wanting an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

To make this worse, the R has this, well, thing, with limited usefulness, that my thumb might mistake for a toggle/joystick. I reckon I could gaff-tape this, uh, thing, to prevent mistaking it for a toggle/joystick, but better to totally ignore the R, as it would be a step-downward/backward from my 5D IV, 5Ds R, 7D II, and 1Ds III cameras.

The lack of capability to use the AF-assist lamp on external Speedlites is also vexing. Some have said that no mirror-less camera is capable of this. 

Perhaps a more pro-oriented R will be introduced. I hope the 5D and 1D series remain alive, until R system has a chance to mature quite a bit more.

[John_SD]

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@RexGig wrote:

Well, I am not seeing any reason to buy into this first generation of the EOS R. The lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, just about rules-out my wanting an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

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I agree with you. In some ways, Nikon's Z6 might be the preferred choice here, as it does feature both a joystick as well as in-body image stabalization. The EOS R offers neither. The lack of these two features will turn a lot of potential buyers off. 

However, the R has the multi-angle LCD screen that can be oriented to the side, wich is better. The Z6 merely tilts up and down. So like all things camera-related, trade-offs must be considered and evaluated. An interesting time to be making a move into full frame mirrorless. 

[amfoto1]

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@RexGig wrote:

Well, I am not seeing any reason to buy into this first generation of the EOS R. The lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, just about rules-out my wanting an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

To make this worse, the R has this, well, thing, with limited usefulness, that my thumb might mistake for a toggle/joystick. I reckon I could gaff-tape this, uh, thing, to prevent mistaking it for a toggle/joystick, but better to totally ignore the R, as it would be a step-downward/backward from my 5D IV, 5Ds R, 7D II, and 1Ds III cameras.

The lack of capability to use the AF-assist lamp on external Speedlites is also vexing. Some have said that no mirror-less camera is capable of this. 

Perhaps a more pro-oriented R will be introduced. I hope the 5D and 1D series remain alive, until R system has a chance to mature quite a bit more.

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Well, let's take it one compaint at a time...

No joystick... no joy! However, I bet the EOS R uses the same trick as the M5 and other M-series, where the rear touch screen acts as an AF point selection device. Look it up, it's pretty cool.

At first you might be concerned about accidental "nose-selection", especially if you are a left-eye shooter. However they thought of that on the M5, et al., too. You can choose and set up a quadrant of the screen that acts as the AF point selection on those cameras. For example, if you prefer it under your left thumb, it can be.

I hadn't heard the point about the AF Assist lamp before. (I'm still waiting for the EOS R user manual to be released with more info.) But all I've seen so far suggests the R will be fully compatible with EX Speedlites. However, maybe the AF assist won't be needed, since the EOS R's AF is claimed to be -6 EV capable. That's three stops lower light than any of the DLRS can focus: -3EV. 1 stop is half the light, 2 stops is 25% and 3 stops is only 12.5%.... Or, another way of looking at it, the R's AF is 8X more sensitive than that of the best DSLRs. While the DSLR can focus by the light of the moon... the EOS R should be able to focus by the illumination of the aurora borealis.

I guess the EOS R is intended to be an affordable "entry level" model... but it's specs are pretty impressive when you dig into it. In a sense, it like a 5D Mark IV that's shrunk a little, learned some new tricks and gotten a vastly improved AF system, for $1000 less that a "real" 5DIV.

IMO, the EOS R and mirrorless in general aren't for everyone (limited shots per battery charge are one reason that they fall short for some of my needs, but I'm considering a mirrorless for other things). But I'm sure it will be a good fit for some people and I'm impressed with what Canon has done with their first full frame mirrorless.

And I'm sure there is plenty of life left in the DSLRs.... tech that will "trickle over" from mirrorless to DSLR and vice versa... and it's a good bet this is just the beginning.

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & ZENFOLIO 

[RobertTheFat]

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@RexGig wrote:

Well, I am not seeing any reason to buy into this first generation of the EOS R. The lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, just about rules-out my wanting an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

To make this worse, the R has this, well, thing, with limited usefulness, that my thumb might mistake for a toggle/joystick. I reckon I could gaff-tape this, uh, thing, to prevent mistaking it for a toggle/joystick, but better to totally ignore the R, as it would be a step-downward/backward from my 5D IV, 5Ds R, 7D II, and 1Ds III cameras.

The lack of capability to use the AF-assist lamp on external Speedlites is also vexing. Some have said that no mirror-less camera is capable of this. ...

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Those who say that are probably right. AF assist lamps operate in the near infra-red, and most sensors are blind to IR light.

[Waddizzle]

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@John_SD wrote:

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@RexGig wrote:

Well, I am not seeing any reason to buy into this first generation of the EOS R. The lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, just about rules-out my wanting an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

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I agree with you. In some ways, Nikon's Z6 might be the preferred choice here, as it does feature both a joystick as well as in-body image stabalization. The EOS R offers neither. The lack of these two features will turn a lot of potential buyers off. 

However, the R has the multi-angle LCD screen that can be oriented to the side, wich is better. The Z6 merely tilts up and down. So like all things camera-related, trade-offs must be considered and evaluated. An interesting time to be making a move into full frame mirrorless. 

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Personally, I do not understand all of the debate over lacking IBIS.  Canon’s lens based IS system works, and it works very well.  What advantage do you gain?  What happens when the both the lens and the body have IS, which one takes priority?  Or, do the camera IS and lens IS get into a tug of war?  Wouldn’t the body have to be able to control the lens IS, or least be able to shut it off.

Seeing how some high end Canon  bodies are able to disable the IS in some high end lenses, when the combo is mounted on a tripod, it would not surprise me if the camera body could become capable of fully controlling the IS in a lens.  Why not?

[John_SD]

Oddly, Canon seems to be the only manufacturer of full-frame mirrorless that doesn't offer IBIS. This is doubly wierd considering the fact that two of their new RF-mount lenses don't have IS. Now, if you're shooting on a gimbal or you are using an IS lens, it probably won't matter, but this is a bad decision on Canon's part. The R should have come with IBIS. As it is, Nikon has already apologized that they wont be able to fill all the pre-orders that immediately came in on the Z6. I doubt Canon will have that problem. I still have high hopes for Canon, but the company should be more competitive. Also, the R is about $250 more than the Nikon Z6. As I am not invested in either brand as far as mirrorless is concerned, I will wait and see who really rises to the top in the field. 

[RobertTheFat]

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@John_SD wrote:

Oddly, Canon seems to be the only manufacturer of full-frame mirrorless that doesn't offer IBIS. This is doubly wierd considering the fact that two of their new RF-mount lenses don't have IS. Now, if you're shooting on a gimbal or you are using an IS lens, it probably won't matter, but this is a bad decision on Canon's part. The R should have come with IBIS. As it is, Nikon has already apologized that they wont be able to fill all the pre-orders that immediately came in on the Z6. I doubt Canon will have that problem. I still have high hopes for Canon, but the company should be more competitive. Also, the R is about $250 more than the Nikon Z6. As I am not invested in either brand as far as mirrorless is concerned, I will wait and see who really rises to the top in the field. 

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"Wait and see" is the right answer. It's far too early to make these judgements. And that includes whether Nikon's IBIS is better than Canon's ILIS. Or even whether it doesn't really matter.