03-13-2018 01:52 PM
Owner of the local drag strip talked to me about being trackside with my camera this coming year, he is after a larger Social Media presence. I normally sit in the stands. I am excited about this. Up to about a week ago I was fairly confident I was going to do well....but with the results of my latest few rounds of shooting (my dogs playing/running) I am beginning to panic some. Have a 5D Mark IV and will be using my 20-200L f/2.8 lens. Was planning on shooting Manual at f/5.6 until it started to get dark then try shooting wide open, adjusting the ISO as need be. Couldn't sleep one night...and made the mistake of reading a few different blogs about shooting motorsports. One of them mentioned shooting in AV mode, which made 0 sense. Another blog mentioned shooting in TV, keeping the shutter speed fast enough to avoid the lens from going wide open to keep the DOF deep, if that is what you desire. Have only shot in TV a few times. Have been experimenting, thanks to my pups, with it. I think I have a basic understanding of how it works. A bit confused over it but I still have some time to iron things out. I will not be following the vehicles, I will be down track a short distance from the starting line and having the cars coming at me. Which "case" should I be using?
Any general guide lines I should follow in regards to shutter settings and ISO?
Any and all advice will be appreciated.
03-14-2018 06:08 PM
I see I have a ton of info to learn. Track is holding a chassis certification day the beginning of April, there will also be a class on how to correctly use the "Christmas Tree". I am hoping that the tree is actually set up and vehicles are heading down track. I have an idea on how I am going to start out but will not be surprised if I am way off. I am fairly comfortable shooting in Manual so I am going to probably start there. I am planning on using my pups as models so I can try to get a basic understanding of TV mode.
One of the things I know I am going to struggle with is the sun...and shadows. As the sun sets I will be looking dead into it, if I remember right. There are also certain times of the day where no matter where I stand I will be in the shade while the starting area will be in direct sun...and vice versa. Have been studying many of the shots I took last year, from the bleachers and can't help but notice this. I was often in the shade, shooting thru a slim band of sun while the cars were in the shade. I am sure I am overthinking all of this....because that is one of the things I am good at.....which leads to the panic...
03-14-2018 10:10 PM - edited 03-15-2018 09:10 PM
@inkjunkiewrote:I see I have a ton of info to learn. Track is holding a chassis certification day the beginning of April, there will also be a class on how to correctly use the "Christmas Tree". I am hoping that the tree is actually set up and vehicles are heading down track. I have an idea on how I am going to start out but will not be surprised if I am way off. I am fairly comfortable shooting in Manual so I am going to probably start there. I am planning on using my pups as models so I can try to get a basic understanding of TV mode.
One of the things I know I am going to struggle with is the sun...and shadows. As the sun sets I will be looking dead into it, if I remember right. There are also certain times of the day where no matter where I stand I will be in the shade while the starting area will be in direct sun...and vice versa. Have been studying many of the shots I took last year, from the bleachers and can't help but notice this. I was often in the shade, shooting thru a slim band of sun while the cars were in the shade. I am sure I am overthinking all of this....because that is one of the things I am good at.....which leads to the panic...
In this job, are you a documentarian or a publicist? If the latter (e.g., if you don't have to produce a salable picture of every car in every race), you have fewer constraints and more freedom to exercise artistic judgement. You may even be able to make the odd lighting work in your favor; sunset can be a good time to get attractive shots. And do you have to produce your best work immediately, or will you have time to grow into the job?
In the last several years before I retired, when photography was part of my job, I was able to grow into it. I cringe now at some of my early pictures, but my clients in other departments liked them, because I was at least calling attention to what their people were doing. I don't mean to imply that I could get away with shoddy work. In some cases (Inaugurations, important award ceremonies, lectures by well-known speakers, etc.) I definitely couldn't. But I sort of knew what I was doing, and the pressure usually helped by making me a more careful worker.
I think the bottom line is to treat this as an opportunity; do the best you can; but don't expect perfection. You'll learn what works as you go and should come out fine.
03-15-2018 08:59 PM
@RobertTheFatwrote:
@inkjunkiewrote:I see I have a ton of info to learn. Track is holding a chassis certification day the beginning of April, there will also be a class on how to correctly use the "Christmas Tree". I am hoping that the tree is actually set up and vehicles are heading down track. I have an idea on how I am going to start out but will not be surprised if I am way off. I am fairly comfortable shooting in Manual so I am going to probably start there. I am planning on using my pups as models so I can try to get a basic understanding of TV mode.
One of the things I know I am going to struggle with is the sun...and shadows. As the sun sets I will be looking dead into it, if I remember right. There are also certain times of the day where no matter where I stand I will be in the shade while the starting area will be in direct sun...and vice versa. Have been studying many of the shots I took last year, from the bleachers and can't help but notice this. I was often in the shade, shooting thru a slim band of sun while the cars were in the shade. I am sure I am overthinking all of this....because that is one of the things I am good at.....which leads to the panic...
In this job, are you a documentarian or a publicist? If the latter (e.g., if you don't have to produce a salable picture of every car in every race), you have fewer constraints and more freedom to exercise artistic judgement. You hay even be able to make the odd lighting work in your favor; sunset can be a good time to get attractive shots. And do you have to produce your best work immediately, or will you have time to grow into the job?
In the last several years before I retired, when photography was part of my job, I was able to grow into it. I cringe now at some of my early pictures, but my clients in other departments liked them, because I was at least calling attention to what their people were doing. I don't mean to imply that I could get away with shoddy work. In some cases (Inaugurations, important award ceremonies, lectures by well-known speakers, etc.) I definitely couldn't. But I sort of knew what I was doing, and the pressure usually helped by making me a more careful worker.
I think the bottom line is to treat this as an opportunity; do the best you can; but don't expect perfection. You'll learn what works as you go and should come out fine.
My images will just be for social media, least that is my intention. I am not under any contract...this is purely voluntary. I did have a couple folks contact me for specific images from last year. Last year I was shooting in auto mode, from the stands except for the last event.
I appreciate your thoughts. The real issue is my mental health issues...and I expect far to much from myself.
03-16-2018 11:02 AM
Looks like I get another practice session of sorts. The end of March Spokane County Reacewars is hosting a DTP Racewars event. Don't know if I will be permitted trackside, hope so.
03-16-2018 06:31 PM
@inkjunkiewrote:Looks like I get another practice session of sorts. The end of March Spokane County Reacewars is hosting a DTP Racewars event. Don't know if I will be permitted trackside, hope so.
Cite your summer job with the other track and go for the equivalent of a press pass. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
03-22-2018 08:45 PM
I contacted the promoter of the Racewars event, he siad being trackside would not be a problem. I was suppoed to meet up with a locl guy that does a lot of motorsports photography tonight but looks like it is not going to happen. I have been outside chasing our dogs around with the camera, just to get an understanding of how Shutter Prioirty works. I acutally used my T7i first, seems a bit more rookie friendly when it comes to learning things.
I also stood on the side of a couple different state highways, taking pictures of moving vehicles. I actually got lucky a few times and caught the passengers.
In the past my interest in photgraphy never lasted all that long, which resulted in me never getting out of the green box. But this time I am much more enthused about things. My wife laughs, when ever we take out 2 8 week old Redbone Coonhounds outside during the day I always try to bring a camera. I was organizing Lightroom last night...of the 6800 RAW images I have imported into Lightroom so far 4000 of them are of our dogs....
03-22-2018 09:43 PM
@inkjunkiewrote:I contacted the promoter of the Racewars event, he siad being trackside would not be a problem. I was suppoed to meet up with a locl guy that does a lot of motorsports photography tonight but looks like it is not going to happen. I have been outside chasing our dogs around with the camera, just to get an understanding of how Shutter Prioirty works. I acutally used my T7i first, seems a bit more rookie friendly when it comes to learning things.
I also stood on the side of a couple different state highways, taking pictures of moving vehicles. I actually got lucky a few times and caught the passengers.
In the past my interest in photgraphy never lasted all that long, which resulted in me never getting out of the green box. But this time I am much more enthused about things. My wife laughs, when ever we take out 2 8 week old Redbone Coonhounds outside during the day I always try to bring a camera. I was organizing Lightroom last night...of the 6800 RAW images I have imported into Lightroom so far 4000 of them are of our dogs....
Yeah... but that’s how you learn. You can “read” (and I encourage reading) but it doesn’t really cement in your head until you “do” it enough.
If you shoot randomly, you occasionally get a good or even great shot. As the saying goes “even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn”. But if you shoot with a goal (instead of randomly) you start to develop a sense of what techniques help achieve the intended goal vs. which techniques aren’t helpful.
Thomas Edison tried thousands of different things in his attempt to make the light bulb. He was once asked about all of his “failed” attempts. His response was (paraphrasing) that they weren’t failures... that he now knows 3000 things that don’t work.
I feel as if, when it comes to learning photography, I also know thousands of things that “don’t work”. 😉
03-22-2018 10:44 PM
Today's equipment makes it a lot easier to do what you need to do but it's still not easy BUT if it was everyone would be doing it to the point no one would think much of a great result. Learning from our mistakes never ends unless we give up trying.
03-13-2018 05:27 PM
The 5D IV has a very advanced and technical focus system.
Make sure you download and read this:
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos_1dx_markii_af_guidebook.shtml
Note that this says "1D X Mark II" but it turns out the two cameras have nearly identical AF systems ... nearly everything in this guide applies to the 5D Mark IV as well.
On your camera, make sure you enable "AI Servo" AF mode. I prefer to put it in the mode that uses ALL available AF points because that's the mode that tracks the subject as it moves and can track it anywhere. If you limit the use of AF points, then the camera can only track across the points you allow it to use.
You will also probably want to switch to high-speed burst mode.
On your 70-200mm lens... turn the Stabilizer ON but set the Stabilizer to Mode 2. More on why later.
Evaluate the cases (Case 1 through Case 6) and you may need to do some testing to decide which case is best for your situation. I shoot track cycling and find that case 2 seems to work the best (track cycling doesn't have erratic motion or fast accel/decel speeds, changes in direction, etc... but things will momentarily get in the way ... so I tend to prefer to use Case 2 for my type of shooting. Your type of shooting may require something different for best results.
In the AF tab of your camera, tab 1 sets the AF case selection.
AF Tab 2 sets first & second image priority. What's that mean? The camera can favor obtaining focus BEFORE it shoots... or it can favor GETTING THE SHOT when you hit the shutter release... even if it hadnt't finished focus. For most cameras, the default in AI Servo mode is to take the shot WHEN you press the shutter all the way down becuase you can hold the shutter half-way (or use back-button focus) to keep the camera focused on your subject (so you've pre-focused) and then when you press the shutter it is already focused.
But you can tune this on a 5D IV and tell it you'd rather have focus priority over release priority. At the velodrome, riders are looping so I'm not as worried about capturing the "decisive moment" and more worried about good sharp focus. I set 1st image priority to favor focus. Second image priority is a bit of a misnomer... it actually means "every frame in your burst apart from the first frame". That one has a 5 point scale... on the extreme left is favoring release time... the extreme right is favoring focus... the middle setting splits the balance. I noticed that with my first few outings that my first image in a burst would be sharp... but successive frames in the burst weren't as sharp. So I tuned my 2nd image priority one notch toward favoring facus (note that there's a performance penalty because camera wants to evaluate focus more carefully as you do this.)
On AF tab 4 you'll find things like "Auto AF pt sel:" and I set mine to "EOS iTR AF". There's also a choice with "EOS iTR AF (Face priority)". EOS iTR is the intelligent tracking & recongtion. But in your sport, can you even see the driver's faces? If not, you should probably disable face-detection so the camera doesn't hunt for a face in the shot.
I set "selectable AF point" to all (you can tell it to only use cross-type points ... or a 15 or 9 point grid).
You'll also find choices on how the camera picks the initial AF point when using AI Servo mode.
Also note... your camera has three CUSTOM mode positions on the mode dial. Suppose you have favorite settings for shooting a race (action shots) but you have a completely different set of favorites for shooting non-action shots at the track (cars & drivers before / after the race, etc.)
You can set up everything the way you want (e.g. for action shots) and "register" that setup to a custom position (e.g. such as the "C1" position on the mode dial. Then set up everything the way you want again (e.g. maybe this time for non-action shots), and "register" that to another custom position (e.g. such as the "C2" position on the mode dial).
Now you can flip between C1 & C2 on the mode dial and you don't have to go digging through menus ard remember the whole pile of custom tweaks that you made to optimize the camera behavior.
This is what I mean when I say the 5D IV is a "technical" camera. It has the ability to be customized to your needs, but that adds some technical complexity.
But if you read that AF Setting Guidebook that I linked, you'll become more aware of what the camera can do for you. And then register your custom settings so you can rapidly flip between shooting modes as needed.
I mentioned switching the lens Stabilizer to mode 2. Mode 1 is the general purpose mode. In mode 1 the lens will try to stabilize things in all directions. The problem with mode 1 is that you have fast moving cars and you're going to need to pan the camera to follow the car as it zooms by. In mode 1... the lens will FIGHT YOU. In mode 2... the lens knows it's going to be used to catch panning action shots... this means it WILL stabilize any up/down vertical movement ... but it will NOT fight you on the horizontal panning action.
BTW, I tend to use Av mode even for action photography BECAUSE I'm shooting at an indoor velodrome. I want the camera to use a wide aperture (typically f/2.8 ... rarely I might drop to f/4). And then I want it to use the fastest shutter speed it can manage. I'm actually ok with slower shutter speeds and frankly I sometimes prefer that.
Here's what I mean...
This is shot at 1/125th sec.
This one is taken at 1/640th...
Notice the very different amount of blur in the wheels... the 2nd shot doesn't convey a strong sense of speed... whereas the first shot (with the blur) does. I'm using the slower shutter and carefully panning to "imply motion" into a still shot.
This is a more technical type of shot because to pull this off means the camera is panning at the same speed as the subject. If it's out of sync... the subject wont look sharp. I find I get a keeper rate of maybe 1 in 10 of these that I really like (which is why I suggest bursting a blast of frames in the hope that one will be crisp.) This is something I don't recommend you start with... use a higher shutter speed to make sure you have some shots "in the bag" (you need SOME usable shots at every event). When you've got that covered... you can get a bit more artistic and try to pull off a few that convey more energy.
When I learned this technique, I started at a higher shutter speed and slowly eased my way down to a slower shutter speed. It gets easier with practice and you learn to be a bit more smooth about your tracking.
An alternate technique is to put the camera in Manual mode... but set the ISO to 'auto'. You can then pick both the shutter and aperture that you want and the camera will vary the ISO as needed. I am not super keen on this because while the 5D IV is amazing... I do start to notice the noise and if I can keep the ISO low, I'll get cleaner shots.
There are techniques for cleaning up noise and enhancing sharpness that involve create a mask to detect edges of contrast. You generally want to sharpen near edges of contrast... but there's no point in sharping a photo globally (even the flat non-contrasty areas) because that just makes the nosie more noticeable. You can invert the mask and de-noise the flat non-contrasty areas (where noise is easier to spot) and leave the edges of contrast (where noise is harder to spot and those edges need to remain sharp) alone.
03-14-2018 12:40 AM
@TCampbellwrote:The 5D IV has a very advanced and technical focus system.
Make sure you download and read this:
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos_1dx_markii_af_guidebook.shtml
Note that this says "1D X Mark II" but it turns out the two cameras have nearly identical AF systems ... nearly everything in this guide applies to the 5D Mark IV as well.
On your camera, make sure you enable "AI Servo" AF mode. I prefer to put it in the mode that uses ALL available AF points because that's the mode that tracks the subject as it moves and can track it anywhere. If you limit the use of AF points, then the camera can only track across the points you allow it to use.
You will also probably want to switch to high-speed burst mode.
On your 70-200mm lens... turn the Stabilizer ON but set the Stabilizer to Mode 2. More on why later.
Evaluate the cases (Case 1 through Case 6) and you may need to do some testing to decide which case is best for your situation. I shoot track cycling and find that case 2 seems to work the best (track cycling doesn't have erratic motion or fast accel/decel speeds, changes in direction, etc... but things will momentarily get in the way ... so I tend to prefer to use Case 2 for my type of shooting. Your type of shooting may require something different for best results.
In the AF tab of your camera, tab 1 sets the AF case selection.
AF Tab 2 sets first & second image priority. What's that mean? The camera can favor obtaining focus BEFORE it shoots... or it can favor GETTING THE SHOT when you hit the shutter release... even if it hadnt't finished focus. For most cameras, the default in AI Servo mode is to take the shot WHEN you press the shutter all the way down becuase you can hold the shutter half-way (or use back-button focus) to keep the camera focused on your subject (so you've pre-focused) and then when you press the shutter it is already focused.
But you can tune this on a 5D IV and tell it you'd rather have focus priority over release priority. At the velodrome, riders are looping so I'm not as worried about capturing the "decisive moment" and more worried about good sharp focus. I set 1st image priority to favor focus. Second image priority is a bit of a misnomer... it actually means "every frame in your burst apart from the first frame". That one has a 5 point scale... on the extreme left is favoring release time... the extreme right is favoring focus... the middle setting splits the balance. I noticed that with my first few outings that my first image in a burst would be sharp... but successive frames in the burst weren't as sharp. So I tuned my 2nd image priority one notch toward favoring facus (note that there's a performance penalty because camera wants to evaluate focus more carefully as you do this.)
On AF tab 4 you'll find things like "Auto AF pt sel:" and I set mine to "EOS iTR AF". There's also a choice with "EOS iTR AF (Face priority)". EOS iTR is the intelligent tracking & recongtion. But in your sport, can you even see the driver's faces? If not, you should probably disable face-detection so the camera doesn't hunt for a face in the shot.
I set "selectable AF point" to all (you can tell it to only use cross-type points ... or a 15 or 9 point grid).
You'll also find choices on how the camera picks the initial AF point when using AI Servo mode.
Also note... your camera has three CUSTOM mode positions on the mode dial. Suppose you have favorite settings for shooting a race (action shots) but you have a completely different set of favorites for shooting non-action shots at the track (cars & drivers before / after the race, etc.)
You can set up everything the way you want (e.g. for action shots) and "register" that setup to a custom position (e.g. such as the "C1" position on the mode dial. Then set up everything the way you want again (e.g. maybe this time for non-action shots), and "register" that to another custom position (e.g. such as the "C2" position on the mode dial).
Now you can flip between C1 & C2 on the mode dial and you don't have to go digging through menus ard remember the whole pile of custom tweaks that you made to optimize the camera behavior.
This is what I mean when I say the 5D IV is a "technical" camera. It has the ability to be customized to your needs, but that adds some technical complexity.
But if you read that AF Setting Guidebook that I linked, you'll become more aware of what the camera can do for you. And then register your custom settings so you can rapidly flip between shooting modes as needed.
I mentioned switching the lens Stabilizer to mode 2. Mode 1 is the general purpose mode. In mode 1 the lens will try to stabilize things in all directions. The problem with mode 1 is that you have fast moving cars and you're going to need to pan the camera to follow the car as it zooms by. In mode 1... the lens will FIGHT YOU. In mode 2... the lens knows it's going to be used to catch panning action shots... this means it WILL stabilize any up/down vertical movement ... but it will NOT fight you on the horizontal panning action.
BTW, I tend to use Av mode even for action photography BECAUSE I'm shooting at an indoor velodrome. I want the camera to use a wide aperture (typically f/2.8 ... rarely I might drop to f/4). And then I want it to use the fastest shutter speed it can manage. I'm actually ok with slower shutter speeds and frankly I sometimes prefer that.
Here's what I mean...
This is shot at 1/125th sec.
This one is taken at 1/640th...
Notice the very different amount of blur in the wheels... the 2nd shot doesn't convey a strong sense of speed... whereas the first shot (with the blur) does. I'm using the slower shutter and carefully panning to "imply motion" into a still shot.
This is a more technical type of shot because to pull this off means the camera is panning at the same speed as the subject. If it's out of sync... the subject wont look sharp. I find I get a keeper rate of maybe 1 in 10 of these that I really like (which is why I suggest bursting a blast of frames in the hope that one will be crisp.) This is something I don't recommend you start with... use a higher shutter speed to make sure you have some shots "in the bag" (you need SOME usable shots at every event). When you've got that covered... you can get a bit more artistic and try to pull off a few that convey more energy.
When I learned this technique, I started at a higher shutter speed and slowly eased my way down to a slower shutter speed. It gets easier with practice and you learn to be a bit more smooth about your tracking.
An alternate technique is to put the camera in Manual mode... but set the ISO to 'auto'. You can then pick both the shutter and aperture that you want and the camera will vary the ISO as needed. I am not super keen on this because while the 5D IV is amazing... I do start to notice the noise and if I can keep the ISO low, I'll get cleaner shots.
There are techniques for cleaning up noise and enhancing sharpness that involve create a mask to detect edges of contrast. You generally want to sharpen near edges of contrast... but there's no point in sharping a photo globally (even the flat non-contrasty areas) because that just makes the nosie more noticeable. You can invert the mask and de-noise the flat non-contrasty areas (where noise is easier to spot) and leave the edges of contrast (where noise is harder to spot and those edges need to remain sharp) alone.
Thank You for the link...and all of the info. I have saved it all so I can read it when my I am a bit more alert....
Thanks again....
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