When will canon fix the focus issues with the 70D?

[Photogirl55]

I was "T.H.I.S." close to buying the 70D.  I have read WAYYY too many posts about issues with the focusing on the 70D.  How is Canon handling the issue?  I would love to buy this camera, but not willing to gamble with that much money.

[pdqgp]

---

@Molybdo42 wrote:

Thanks for the answer ! It's exactly what I've done on first and second repair, in both I put a 4 pages letter explaining the issue. Now the conversation we had shows that I wasn't clear enough, if I need a third repair I'll try to modify my text. What posts were you occupying at Kodak and Panasonic ? This might help me in writting the letter differently.

---

Sales Director, but the position offered me complete access to engineering and development, tech support, etc.    Even in big companies, the various lines of business and groups within are pretty tightly integrated.

---

But for his defence, most (if not all ?) photographers don't know the kind of software procedure the AF goes through when selecting what It should focus on. Does it focus on the nearest subject, or on the most contrasted, or on the one located in the center of the mark ? Those are questions I still need to ask myself. Maybe that the picture you pointed at would have focussed properly,maybe the AF system focuses on the closest widest subject (the face is closer and covers more than 4/5 the sensitive area, so I would expect to lock focus on that). I think that automatic AF point selection does that.

---

^^ Fair questions, but still the responsibility of the user to understand before they should go blaming the hardware.  Again, not flaming the guy, but the truth is he's blaming the system when he clearly lacks the understanding as to what happened and what role the user/he played in the outcome.   I can put the site of my AR15 on a target, but if I've not adjusted the site for 300 yards vs 100 yards or if I don't even understand the concept of aiming, then the drop of said bullet over distance is going to cause a miss even on a zero wind day.  So there too 4/5 in terms of closeness won't matter.   That only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades as they say.  Hopefully that guy doesn't pick up a gun and expect to hit targets just because the scope or site is on-target. 

---

 

But, regardless what they were told, the affected users still "instinctivly" felt that something was wrong with their camera. Kind of like I did when I got the 70D. In my first pictures I couldn't understand why the camera can't focus. Also up until the 70D, I never payed too much attention to how AF works. In a sense, this 70D issue made me a better photographer as I now know what "crosstype" means (to show you how far I was)...

You unfortunately really need to experience that issue once to clearly understand what we are going through.

---

I'm not sure what you mean by "instinctively"?   IMO it's a matter of expectations not being met.   Users bought this camera and thought that it would automatically make them a better shot.  This same exact issue has come up on just about every Canon DSLR Sold to date and 9/10 times the complaints are from users who "upgraded" to the new system and didn't have said experience with them prior.   Not sure who set their expectations or really, the understanding of the system, but that's where the fault lies.   Another gun anaolgy as I shoot both, putting a scope on rifle isn't going to marksman make.

Believe me, I've been there done that with cameras in my days shooting them.   I've had plenty of Canon SLR's.  D30, 10D, 20D, 40D, 50D, 70D,  1DMKII and a 5DMKIII.     Only the 20D has bit the dust.  The rest work and many are being used by my family members I've given them to.

[70Downer]

---

@pdqgp wrote:

---

---

^^ Fair questions, but still the responsibility of the user to understand before they should go blaming the hardware.  Again, not flaming the guy, but the truth is he's blaming the system when he clearly lacks the understanding as to what happened and what role the user/he played in the outcome.   I can put the site of my AR15 on a target, but if I've not adjusted the site for 300 yards vs 100 yards or if I don't even understand the concept of aiming, then the drop of said bullet over distance is going to cause a miss even on a zero wind day.  So there too 4/5 in terms of closeness won't matter.   That only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades as they say.  Hopefully that guy doesn't pick up a gun and expect to hit targets just because the scope or site is on-target. 

---

The guy had a full understanding of how the system works. See the smiley face at the end of the sentence. He knew exactly why the shot missed.

The previous post were about random misses because peolpe were focusing on things the camera had ittle chance of hitting.

The very next post (which you wont see when displaying only single post) starts with. 

[QUOTE=Scoobert;16975031]I realize stuff like the last shot happens on any camera and the box is not the end of the focus point.
[/QUOTE] 

---

[pdqgp]

---

@70Downer wrote:

---

---

The guy had a full understanding of how the system works. See the smiley face at the end of the sentence. He knew exactly why the shot missed.

The previous post were about random misses because peolpe were focusing on things the camera had ittle chance of hitting.

---

---

Gotcha....saw that.   I was responding to @Molybdo42 and their comment:

       Look at the pictures in these post, and tell me if that's how a camera's AF is supposed to work :

[Molybdo42]

Given the position you've occupied, I finally understand why you want to defend the 70D and I completely agree with you. I'm in research and development so I often tend to take shortcuts when I'm explaining things... and later I'm often not understanding why I'm not clear enough (I did though for a moment that you were an engineer) !

Unfortunately, some 70Ds have a very hard to spot focus issue and the usual script used by the repair centers force most people with a genuine issue to go through 3 returns to get their camera fixed. Wished Canon put in place a special protocol (test + repair) for that issue for a given range of serial numbers. That way we wouldn't have to go through all this. Maybe that by now the've put one, I don't know... Apparently in some other forum at least two users got their camera fixed ( look for Steven Lefebre and fraser360 https://www.flickr.com/groups/70d/discuss/72157639283256254/page2/ ). So maybe Canon is finally starting to get things moving. I just hope I'll soon be able to put all this behind.

Also for people who might not have an issue, Canon's silence isn't reconforting, so those people still send their camera for repair or "live" with fear of having a bad unit. Now unecessary returns can be because of the alarming tone of this thread and that is indeed an issue. But I don't know if Canon could,  just by looking at the serial number, keep track of each component inserted inside each camera. Best would be if they could make a recall because those without fast lenses can't test easely for the issue and they can't get their camera fixed.

An alternative would be to have a testing method to isolate the issue. Unfortunately, I now think that a similar sort of testing method as mine, would be too difficult to follow, it would even (at first glance) be too hard to understand why it should be done...

By "instinctively" I just meant that because some users had experience with other cameras, they quickly saw that something was wrong. At least for Scoobert, it's not an issue with expectations not being met. His camera got fixed (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=17011802&postcount=890), and he's not complaining anymore !

[raybez59]

As some of you know I have documented my issues here and wanted update my situation and try to get some sort of explanation though I know it will not be easy since noone has all the info.  As I said earlier I had gone through well over a thousand frames in my 70d without a single frame being in focus. As well, the colors were muted and there was a lot of noise even at low iso. All my settings were default except I set the metering mode to eval and I only use 1 focus point which I put at the top of the frame, wheather portrait or landscape. Out of habit I focus center mass then recompose.  Before I sent the camera back we tried to diagnose the issue by phone with no success.

A lady from canon contacted me and told me they had found no issues and could do nothing. They wanted to look at my lenses, but this is our busy time and I so I took them to a canon dealer and tested them on a new 70d straight out of the box.  I tested them under very poor conditions and both canera and lenses performed well, sharp images with good color even at high iso.  So I contacted her and told her to send the camera back and I would trade it in even though I knew I would take a hit. She seemed to emphasize that I may want to shoot a few more frames before trading it.  I got the unit back late yesterday and shot a few frames of this crazy, giant mushroom that popped up in my back yard. (No, I did not consume the mushroom) I set the ap at 3.5, shutter 125 and 400 iso.  Then I took it to my studio today and shot some images outside under good conditions at low iso.  All this was with default settings. Then I reset to eval and single focus point and went behind my studio and took several pix under low light/very high iso.  I only used a Tamron lens, never tried an EL.  I know this is the same camera because the seriel number is the same but the performance, under all conditions and settings is much better. The images were sharp under all conditions and the colors were much more vivid.  Noise, even at 4000 iso was minimal.  Same settings, same camera.  The folks at canon said they did nothing to the camera, but the difference is remarkable.  I am a photographer, not a geek so I don't really know as much about the inner workings as some people do, but I do know that all considered, it is hard for me to believe they did nothing. The colors are not as vivid as my 5d and the images are not as sharp but when I run them through the same actions I have set up in PS it is hard to tell the difference. There is a difference in depth of field at the same aperture but I think considering the 5d is full frame that can be explained. I would love to hear any explanations, otherwise I will give this crate another chance and see what happens.

[Molybdo42]

Maybe the contacts weren't clean enough ?

http://kbsupport.cusa.canon.com/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1011&PARTITION_ID=1&secu...

Or there was some dust on the AF sensor ?

It's amongst the first checks to do (http://www.bythom.com/autofocus.htm).

[cale_kat]

---

@raybez59 wrote:

As some of you know I have documented my issues here and wanted update my situation and try to get some sort of explanation though I know it will not be easy since noone has all the info.  As I said earlier I had gone through well over a thousand frames in my 70d without a single frame being in focus. As well, the colors were muted and there was a lot of noise even at low iso. All my settings were default except I set the metering mode to eval and I only use 1 focus point which I put at the top of the frame, wheather portrait or landscape. Out of habit I focus center mass then recompose.  Before I sent the camera back we tried to diagnose the issue by phone with no success.

A lady from canon contacted me and told me they had found no issues and could do nothing. They wanted to look at my lenses, but this is our busy time and I so I took them to a canon dealer and tested them on a new 70d straight out of the box.  I tested them under very poor conditions and both canera and lenses performed well, sharp images with good color even at high iso.  So I contacted her and told her to send the camera back and I would trade it in even though I knew I would take a hit. She seemed to emphasize that I may want to shoot a few more frames before trading it.  I got the unit back late yesterday and shot a few frames of this crazy, giant mushroom that popped up in my back yard. (No, I did not consume the mushroom) I set the ap at 3.5, shutter 125 and 400 iso.  Then I took it to my studio today and shot some images outside under good conditions at low iso.  All this was with default settings. Then I reset to eval and single focus point and went behind my studio and took several pix under low light/very high iso.  I only used a Tamron lens, never tried an EL.  I know this is the same camera because the seriel number is the same but the performance, under all conditions and settings is much better. The images were sharp under all conditions and the colors were much more vivid.  Noise, even at 4000 iso was minimal.  Same settings, same camera.  The folks at canon said they did nothing to the camera, but the difference is remarkable.  I am a photographer, not a geek so I don't really know as much about the inner workings as some people do, but I do know that all considered, it is hard for me to believe they did nothing. The colors are not as vivid as my 5d and the images are not as sharp but when I run them through the same actions I have set up in PS it is hard to tell the difference. There is a difference in depth of field at the same aperture but I think considering the 5d is full frame that can be explained. I would love to hear any explanations, otherwise I will give this crate another chance and see what happens.

---

I'm going to let you in on a secret of corporate customer service. Fix all problems, admit no culpability. Got it?

[kkgiyer]

I am having a hard time to find out if mine has a problem. I have inconsistent results so I am not able to say. But what appears to be sharp through the VF and on the LCD are actually not sharp when seen on the computer. This is not the case with all the pictures though. 

I don't have any other cameras to compare with. I just compared pictures taken with different cameras here - http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

It is clear (and unbelievable) that T5i and 60D are sharper compared to 70D and 7D.

I feel 7D is slightly better than 70D but not as good as T5i and 60D. 

The images appear to be shot in a very controlled environment and professionally. I feel bad that I own an expensive camera that is not serving the purpose. Will keep testing for some more time and if I am convinced that there is an issue, I will sell it even at a loss because I have no hope that Canon will admit it and fix. I will lose many moments and events in the meantime. I am not a professional but I have owned few digital cameras and a panasonic mirrorless camera in the past and when I look at those old pictures, they appear to be much much better than the pictures taken with this camera. I am not a slow learner and don't wish this issue to be attributed to user error. 

[RobertTheFat]

---

@kkgiyer wrote:

I am having a hard time to find out if mine has a problem. I have inconsistent results so I am not able to say. But what appears to be sharp through the VF and on the LCD are actually not sharp when seen on the computer. This is not the case with all the pictures though. 

I don't have any other cameras to compare with. I just compared pictures taken with different cameras here - http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

It is clear (and unbelievable) that T5i and 60D are sharper compared to 70D and 7D.

I feel 7D is slightly better than 70D but not as good as T5i and 60D. 

The images appear to be shot in a very controlled environment and professionally. I feel bad that I own an expensive camera that is not serving the purpose. Will keep testing for some more time and if I am convinced that there is an issue, I will sell it even at a loss because I have no hope that Canon will admit it and fix. I will lose many moments and events in the meantime. I am not a professional but I have owned few digital cameras and a panasonic mirrorless camera in the past and when I look at those old pictures, they appear to be much much better than the pictures taken with this camera. I am not a slow learner and don't wish this issue to be attributed to user error. 

---

Both the 7D and the 70D have autofocus microadjustment capability. Have you tried using it to make sure the lenses you're using are calibrated properly?

[KeithR]

The 70D is unquestionably sharper than the 7D - it's a crazy-sharp camera.