When will canon fix the focus issues with the 70D?

[Photogirl55]

I was "T.H.I.S." close to buying the 70D.  I have read WAYYY too many posts about issues with the focusing on the 70D.  How is Canon handling the issue?  I would love to buy this camera, but not willing to gamble with that much money.

[TTMartin]

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@steve70dreinhar wrote:

Unfortunately for me, Canon refused to accept liability on the soft focus issue. I personally think it has to do with the dual pixel system as it is geared more towards film then high grade sharp images. I think the lenses cant cope with it. I spent many hours at canon and spoke to some senior techs/managers who agreed with this theory but couldnt and wouldn't do anything about it. 

The problem extends (from my testing) to the 7d MII, and 760D all with the same focus problem. 

I voted with my feet, when they offered to upgrade me to a 5d III and 24-702.8 II combo for $4800 Aus to resolve the issue. 

Regards

Steve

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Wow!

What you wrote is so far from true it's almost not worth responding to.

It's obvious you don't know what the 'issue' supposedly is, much less what the issue with a few early German cameras actually was.

It is perfectly normal to need micro focus adjustment for phase detect AF to match the live-view contrast detect or dual pixel AF.

Please read this to understand why - "This lens is soft" and other myths ~ by Roger Cicala, lensrentals.com

[TCampbell]

When you compose & focus via the viewfinder, the dual-pixel system isn't used.  The shutter has to be open (and the mirror has to swing clear of the image path) in order to use the dual-pixel system. 

The standard phase-detect AF sensors are on the floor of the camera.  Hiding behind the reflex mirror is a smaller secondary mirror.  The primary mirror is semi-transparent to allow some light to bounce through to the secondary mirror -- and then down into the AF sensors.  The path is measured so that the distance straight through to the sensor, vs. the distance to the focusing screen, vs. the distance to the phase-detect sensors are all the same (and the mirror is shimmed at the factor for this.)

When the phase-detect AF sensors detect that the image is "out of phase" at a particular point that should be focused, it measures how far out and also reads the direction of the phase shift (to know if it needs to bring focus in closer vs. out farther.)  It then sends the corretive movement to the lens which, if carried out correctly, will EXACTLY bring the image back into phase in just ONE adjustment (it does not "hunt" for focus.)  The amount of focus correction will depend on specifically which lens is attached to the camera.  It is possible for the focus correction needed for one lens to be fractionally different than the focus correction needed for a different lens (not just a different type of lens... even a different copy of the same lens model.)  This is why AFMA is cool... you can tune the AF system for your specific lenses.

It is ALSO possible for gears to wear, get loose, and develop "backlash" (gear slop).  Suppose the last focus motion was to bring focus in closer -- but now the camera needs to send focus out farther.  The first tiny bit of movement (that the camera thinks would be moving the lens elements) is really just eating up some of the backlash in the gears (the lens elements aren't really moving yet.)  This can throw off the accuracy of contrast-detect AF in a somewhat random way and cause inconsistent focus (so inconsistent that even AFMA cannot compensate for it.)  Continuously re-focusing would eventually refine the focus, but if if you've got lenses with backlash in the focus gears then that lens needs a tune-up (it's a lens problem, not a camera problem.  Moving that same lens to a different camera body would still exhibit the same problem.)

Hopefully you are happy with your new 5D III... but if it has focus problems, either you need to apply some AFMA (use a proper commercial focus test chart... do NOT use ordinary pictures to judge focus accuracy) or possibly you have a lens (or lenses) that could benefit from a tune-up.

[thinkdeep]

Hey Everyone from Hungary.

I have the exact same issue. I used different Canon models but with my 70D I deeply disappointed in the brand, not because of the issue, because of the denial.

I took my gear to one of the Canon support, where I paid almost $80 to be checked, and they microadjusted my lenses and the body.

Still the same...

[TTMartin]

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@thinkdeep wrote:
Hey Everyone from Hungary.

I have the exact same issue. I used different Canon models but with my 70D I deeply disappointed in the brand, not because of the issue, because of the denial.

I took my gear to one of the Canon support, where I paid almost $80 to be checked, and they microadjusted my lenses and the body.

Still the same...

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If Canon's checked your gear and found nothng wrong, I would suggest you watch these three videos and see if they help with your issue.

A Look at The Canon Autofocus System Part 1

A Look at The Canon Autofocus System Part 2

A Look at The Canon Autofocus System Part 3

For many those video's make all the difference in the world.

Even if you watched them a few years ago, they are worth watching again.

[jeffandellie]

Hi Tim, are you suggesting that the issue is based on user error? Or are you agreeing that there is a view-finder center square focus problem, but it could also be other problems?

Because my canon 70D clearly demonstrated a viewfinder center square out of focus issue that was FAR beyond the reach of micro adjust, with every lens, at a range of apertures, as demonstrated through a series of pics taken exactly as Canon directed, which were then accepted by canon as evidence of a warranty repairable issue. (took test pics with 6 different lenses at 3 different apertures each and submitted) Canon fixed my 70d through warranty, but would not report back to me what they did to fix it  except "check firmware, clean sensor". The service people (in Canada) were very unhelpful and totally unwilling to discuss anything about it. 

I love the 70d for the features it offers and chose to stay with it for now instead of going to a 7d mk2 or 5d mk3, but i can tell you that had I known the frustration I would face, i would have gone to an entirely different system/brand. At this point I have somewhere between 7,500 and 10,000 invested, and selling out would be too costly. That being said, I am not shy about sharing my frustration about canon with others who ask, including those who are seeking advice about buying a new camera or lenses.

Also – the whole thing with the guys at Magic Lantern discovering that there were to completely different versions of firmware 1.1.1 is highly interesting, and it is not hard to draw conclusions about this that suggest that canon realized there was an issue and quietly changed the firmware without sending a notice to users and avoiding admitting that there was an issue.

I am both skeptical and amused but also agitated when I hear people who have not experienced the issue telling everyone it is user error, or people who don’t know what they are doing, and that there is no issue with the 70d. There is clearly an issue, and the question is why didn't  Canon  just own up to it and issue a public fix.

[TTMartin]

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@jeffandellie wrote:

Hi Tim, are you suggesting that the issue is based on user error? Or are you agreeing that there is a view-finder center square focus problem, but it could also be other problems?

Because my canon 70D clearly demonstrated a viewfinder center square out of focus issue that was FAR beyond the reach of micro adjust, with every lens, at a range of apertures, as demonstrated through a series of pics taken exactly as Canon directed, which were then accepted by canon as evidence of a warranty repairable issue. (took test pics with 6 different lenses at 3 different apertures each and submitted) Canon fixed my 70d through warranty, but would not report back to me what they did to fix it  except "check firmware, clean sensor". The service people (in Canada) were very unhelpful and totally unwilling to discuss anything about it. 

I love the 70d for the features it offers and chose to stay with it for now instead of going to a 7d mk2 or 5d mk3, but i can tell you that had I known the frustration I would face, i would have gone to an entirely different system/brand. At this point I have somewhere between 7,500 and 10,000 invested, and selling out would be too costly. That being said, I am not shy about sharing my frustration about canon with others who ask, including those who are seeking advice about buying a new camera or lenses.

Also – the whole thing with the guys at Magic Lantern discovering that there were to completely different versions of firmware 1.1.1 is highly interesting, and it is not hard to draw conclusions about this that suggest that canon realized there was an issue and quietly changed the firmware without sending a notice to users and avoiding admitting that there was an issue.

I am both skeptical and amused but also agitated when I hear people who have not experienced the issue telling everyone it is user error, or people who don’t know what they are doing, and that there is no issue with the 70d. There is clearly an issue, and the question is why didn't  Canon  just own up to it and issue a public fix.

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If your camera required MFA beyond the range available in the camera then the solution was to send it to Canon as you did and it sounds like they fixed it.

Every single Canon XXD camera has had reported focus issues from the original 10D on up to the 70D.

Any mass produced item will have a few cameras like yours that actually needs service.

The problem is sorting out the ones that are user error, which is the vast majority of complaints, and the few with actual issues.

There is no evidence of a design flaw or even that the majority of cameras have an issue. 

[jeffandellie]

so, the fact that I took the exact same picture in live view versus center square, about 60 times with every lens I have, and the live view focus was perfect everytime and the center square focus was off everytime (by a long shot far outside of the range of micro addjustment) means nothing? there is clearly an issue - you are either in denial for some reason unknowwn to everyone here, or are paid to talk such. 😉  

yes, there have been issues reported as long as there have been cameras, but for one not to see the difference with this issue is quite interesting. 

no comment on the different versions of firmware 1.1.1?

[TTMartin]

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@jeffandellie wrote:

so, the fact that I took the exact same picture in live view versus center square, about 60 times with every lens I have, and the live view focus was perfect everytime and the center square focus was off everytime (by a long shot far outside of the range of micro addjustment) means nothing? there is clearly an issue - you are either in denial for some reason unknowwn to everyone here, or are paid to talk such. 😉  

yes, there have been issues reported as long as there have been cameras, but for one not to see the difference with this issue is quite interesting. 

no comment on the different versions of firmware 1.1.1?

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It means you had a defective camera.

It doesn't mean every 70D is defective.

It also doesn't mean that every person who has a 'focus issue' has a defective camera.

Just like with every advanced camera there are a few with manufacturing issues, and many more with users who have issues getting optimal results from the camera. Unfortunately, those users often read about the few cameras with actual issues, and blame the camera instead of taking the time to learn how to optimize their results, and just blame the camera.

Happens time and time again ever since the advent of the Internet.

No comment on the firmware, because I'm not familiar with it.

[70Downer]

Yes it means he has a defectiove camera.

Almost every 70D I have seen so far has the bounce flash issue that canon has done nothing about.

Not every 70D has a focus issue, but FAR more 70D's have legitimate focus issues then would be normal for a "random problem".

Funny how you claim every advanced camera has problems and users blame the camera. Except in this case there really is a problem with many 70D's and canon is doing nothing to fix them most of the time.

Just curious TTMartin, do you even own a 70D? 

[jeffandellie]

Exactly.... you have to wonder if he owns one, and even more, what his agenda is when so steadfastly sticks to the notion that all these issues are "user" problems. if .01 to .1 percent of the bodies have an issue - it's common manufacturing anomaly, but when you get the volume of these - in Germany it looks like 20 or 30 percent (I saw a comment on the number/%, but don't remember) then you have to admit there is an issue - and of course, the whole firmware thing is very fishy. why is there different versions of firmware 1.1.1???

here are links to the first two test pics i took that lead me to contact canon, who then had me take a series of photos as per their specific settings, which I did. These pics were taken on a tripod, no change in settings between except to change the focus, first in viewfinder center square, then in live view. (Hopefully this sight supports links)

https://www.facebook.com/jeffandellie/media_set?set=a.10204662252970438.1073741849.1059032902&type=3