R Series Mirrorless and Flash Photography (AF ASSIST BEAM)

[declan565]

Im a professional Photographer, I shoot nightclubs and bar-type environments.
I want to upgrade to the canon Mirrorless Cameras but when looking at R3's and R6Mkii I learned that they do not work well with Canon Flashes. 600ex rt ii etc. I found out that the flashes do not fire the red AF Assist Beam (the red light from the front of the flash) To help with focusing.

I shoot in very dark environments and need the Autofocus to be on point and quick in pitch black. Never been an issue with my 5dmk iii or 1dxm ii.

But why do the new cameras not support such a basic feature? Is there plans to address this? I would very much like to upgrade all new cameras and lenses soon but I need my mirrorless and flash system to work. Seems like photographers who need this feature have been forgotten about.

[luka3rd]

Thank you so much for your explanation and time. Very helpful! 

[luka3rd]

I just like to leave an example of the solution for photographing in the similar venues as night clubs.

My need is similar, as I shoot fashion shows, and together with that goes backstage which is usually completely in darkness so I need AF assist! I bought GODOX v860III flash! Oh boy, it is so perfect!!!

I just turn on the modeling light, which also has "flash attenuation function" which dims the LED in the moment of exposition! Led is positioned on the front of the body, which IS the correct way, which helps me focusing in the complete darkness!

Added bonus: model's eyes' pupils contract from the light, so I even got some of the iris colour!!! Phenomenal solution, I'm so happy with the choice!

[deebatman316]

Just because a speedlite has an LED AF Assist Beam. Doesn't mean the camera will use the speedlite's AF Assist Beam. Sometimes the camera body will emit the beam. There is no way around this the camera chooses this. Also most Godox speedlites have incompatibilities with EOS R series cameras. One of them is HSS + E-TTL don't work together. Also Godox speedlites fail when the AF Assist Beam is signaled from the camera. Versions with the old school red grid pattern (IR/ Infrared not really IR) fail to switch Intermittent Flash Firing. Which causes the camera to emit an LED AF Assist Beam instead. The camera will go crazy switching back and forth between the speedlite and camera for AF Assist. The camera is expecting Intermittent Flash Firing from the speedlite but the Godox can't/ doesn't support it. The speedlite doesn't understand the modified AF Assist Beam signal from the camera. Thus causing the speedlite to emit an IR AF Assist Beam. Which the camera can't see because it doesn't detect red light very well at all like a DSLR/ SLR camera's AF sensor can.

[luka3rd]

Cool! I don't use hss... Never did. The rest, I couldn't care less. 

I wrote what it does, and it does it right!

I love the option to have a small tiny light, and I'd hate my flash firing strobes... I've never used modeling flash option of old, never, not even once.

What I'd hate more than stroboscopic burst would be my camera firing disgusting orange LED... 

It's preposterous to me that no manufacturer STILL didn't make green light AF beam, like old "prosumer" Sony cameras had. But I guess they will sometime...

Being as it is, to me this V860III fits perfectly, I keep AF beam option at "off" in the camera, as well as in the flash. I turn on LED when I enter pitch black backstage (it's very tactile - I do it without looking at it), no one cares, everyone even welcomes it. It's not distracting to anyone at level 1, but it's plenty for R6II to focus perfectly.

It's also much more natural to people today to shine on them one white LED, as they're used to mobile phones, than to be strobed - like electrocuted 😄

Anyway, my 2 cents of working experience. 

[deebatman316]

Nikon uses a Green AF Illuminator on their camera bodies. There not even using Intermittent Flash Firing on their speedlites nor does Sony. The only thing about 3rd Party items is will it work with my next camera. Also Canon uses automatic brightness adjustment of the LED AF Assist Beam on the EL-5 when paired with a compatible camera. Which would be every new camera with a multi function hot shoe. Except for the R3, R7 & R10 then only allow full brightness for LED AF Assist or switch to Intermittent Flash Firing. Intermittent Flash Firing was first introduced in 2009 with the original 270EX speedlite. But ONLY cameras released from 2007 onwards support it. This is due to additional hardware needed in the camera to support it. In 2007 Canon released the speedlite control menu and 2 new speedlites which supported it. Those were the 430EX II & 580EX II all other older speedlite were incompatible with it. Certain speedlites have partial compatibility to set rear curtain sync, FEC, FEB, AF Assist Beam Firing & Flash Firing.

[phrank]

Hi, sorry I’m from Nikon, but would switch if Canon would have what I need – a working AF-Assist light feature for mirrorless cams. I’ve bought a Nikon Z 8 early this summer. Well, and I was surprised no AF-assist light is working at my flashes, none from Nikon, Yognuo or Godox. I was warned by Nikon Professional Service, but couldn’t believe it. Mirrorless cameras are just blind at red light. Okay I have this annoying little green LED flashlight, known from semi pro cameras, but these sucks at night life.

So, more than 10 years after (i got my first mirrorless hybrid camera from Panasonic GH-1 in 2010), there is no solution from any of the big camera companies yet? I’ve contacted Yognuo and Godox as well – nothing…  Nikon is aware of it, after complains from the Pros with a Z 9, but I don’t know when they release a solution. I only know about a DIY project with a little focus LED, but it’s probably same like Godox’s modeling light.

[deebatman316]

No because the red grid pattern aligned with the AF sensors in an SLR/ DSLR camera. Intermittent Flash Firing doesn't have this restriction.

[phrank]

Thanks for the reply. I know, I’m not a photo technician, but I wonder if they could use a green or blue AF-assist light pattern instead. I think this Intermittent flash is only a work around which I never used either with a DSLR before.

[deebatman316]

Some of Canon's speedlites only support Intermittent Flash Firing even on a DSLR. Nikon does use a Green AF Assist Beam. Canon uses an Orange AF Assist Beam.

[phrank]

Just found this quote on dpreview.com "If mirrorless cameras are going to displace DSLRs for wedding and event photography, manufacturers need to find a way". WORD – the post is from 2018 – nothing improved?

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0349022850/the-essential-pro-feature-that-no-mirrorless-camera-off...