EOS 90D Auto vs Manual Exposure

[Ramsden]

Hi Folks

I've been quiet for a while - working with my EOS 90D as a keen learner. A month ago I was in London at St Pancras Railway Station, indulging in one of my favourite topics. At the time, I was perseveering with M and Raw - then this other photographer approached me for a chat. Cut a long story short, he takes up to 600 photos on his days out and just clicks away, then edits back home. He said I shouldnt be fiddling around with M on days like this - its ok for the studio.

He gave me his card and he has a professional website! 

I like trying to work out compositions with M - and feel Auto is a cop out - but I could see his point as we spent an hour together and he was everywhere, clicking away while I worked out settings. ( I'm still learning, and its fun)

Ramsden

[ebiggs1 · Accepted solution]

"There are no "wrong" modes, even if you use full auto everything. "

This is a fact, jack, or Gary in this case. I am not against anyone using M mode but there is a reason it is last on the dial. It's a last resort when nothing else will work. Av and Tv can do virtually everything you need and sometimes the camera is smarter than you think.

[ebiggs1]

"Yeah, but of those 600 photos, how many does he actually keep? Plus, he has to take the time to go through all those 600 to decide which ones he want to keep."

I maybe don't take 600 photos every time I go out but I do take a lot sometimes many hundred(s). Lightroom and/or Bridge make short work of sorting and yes a most go to the "bin". But digital is a totally different mind set so why not take many or hundreds? I am going to the Lawrence Wetlands this weekend if it doesn't rain so I expect I will have "hundreds" perhaps many hundreds to go through Monday.

I doubt any will be M mode.

[normadel]

You say

"But ISO isn’t exactly an exposure setting. Exposure is set by shutter speed and aperture. Film cameras did not have an ISO setting. You could only control shutter speed and aperture. You changed the sensitivity of the camera to light by changing the film in the camera.

ISO is just an electronic substitute for the different slim speeds that you could buy when people were shooting with film. Light meters do not have an ISO setting. They are designed to report exposure settings when used with 100 ASA film, which is the sensitivity that the digital setting of ISO 100 tries to simulate."

What are you talking about? Of course film cameras have ISO settings (unless they get the ISO speed from the film cannister DX codes), and of course light meters do. How else could they determine proper exposure settings? I don't believe you actually said this.

[Ramsden]

• Thanks for all your fascinating replies to my question ( which I thought was quite simple). I think you’ve reinforced my realisation that the EOS90D has a lot to offer, and I’ll not be as wedded to M in the future. But I’m a control freak, so need to feel that I can work that magical exposure triangle. I’ve been re-reading Bryan Peterson’s book Understanding Composition - which I really like - and go back to one of his key points ‘get it done in the camera’ - which strikes a chord with me. Also his point about using our eyes and brains to see the arrangement appeals to me. I should add that I learnt photography with my late father and still have is old kit including an exposure meter!

[Waddizzle]

“ What are you talking about? Of course film cameras have ISO settings (unless they get the ISO speed from the film cannister DX codes), and of course light meters do. How else could they determine proper exposure settings? I don't believe you actually said this. “

Believe it.  A light meter will only provide Tv and Av values.  Some film cameras used ASA values to compensate the metering system.  But the exposure settings on film only allowed you to control Tv and Av.

This analog meter is capable of recalculating the values using the exposure triangle by turning a dial called ISO.

 

This more advanced digital only provides Tv and Av values at ISO 100.  It’s left up to the user to determine Tv and Av values at other ISO values.  

 

 

 

[normadel]

You are contradicting yourself. The first light meter you show DOES HAVE an ISO setting dial. You said it yourself. How do you think it's giving Tv/Av results for varying light levels?

A light meter or camera that gives Tv/Av for different available light levels must have an ISO setting. If, as you say, a meter can ONLY give exposure values based on ISO 100, leaving it up to you to figure values for different ISO, makes no sense.

[LeeP]

AMEN and well said.

The mantra of "I must shoot in M" is such a photographic cliche. I learned this eons ago via a Pentax ME (aperture-preferred auto only) and was "limited" to +/- 2 stops of exposure compensation. The metering was so precise that manual was not needed. I shoot a lot of manual with my Nikon F, FM, Pentax MX, and K1000 but not once ever since hopping to Canon in 1998.

[LeeP]

1,000% agree

I tend to find that the older the person more more they trot out the "exposure triangle" and "M is mandatory" mantras and chant them.

I'm 64 and when I got my degree in photography, exposure triangle and the need for manual were necessary tools, or so I thought.

The first camera to soften my stance was a Pentax ME (aperture-preferred auto with +/-2 stops of correction) that I bought for its tiny size as a go-everywhere camera. The metering accuracy was incredible to the point that I stopped carrying a manual body all the time.

I jumped from manual-focus cameras to Canon via an Elan IIe and 7e and I was astounded by the accuracy of P. I now shoot with an R100 and R8 when I'm in the Canon "world" and I am amazed by how capable both are when I let them do everything.
I do a lot of work in P and only do Av or Tv on occasion, but almost never M because it just isn't needed.

[Ramsden]

Hi Lee

Thanks for your comments. You are the second person to mention P - which I'm almost embarrased to admit - I have rarely used. I'm an old guy and fell for the M Raw mantra 18 months ago. I also have to admit making some terrible photos in this setting. This post has really opened my eyes and made me reassess my journey with my EOS 90D. 

My task today is to take my camera for a walk in P.

Any tips for using P most welcome - like should I stay in Raw?

Thanks

Ramsden

[Waddizzle]

“  If, as you say, a meter can ONLY give exposure values based on ISO 100, leaving it up to you to figure values for different ISO, makes no sense. “

I guess the light meter example makes no sense, either then.  It only provides Tv and Av values based on ISO 100.  It’s left up to the user to recalculate exposure (Av and Tv) for other film sensitivities.

Beliveve it.  ISO isn’t really part of exposure.  Your camera allows for mechanical control of just Tv and Av. These two parameters are all that control exposure.

The analog meter is capable of recalculating Av and Tv for you.  But the only exposure information the light meters provide is Av and Tv.