08-20-2024
07:39 AM
- last edited on
09-03-2024
08:04 AM
by
Danny
Hi community, as proud owner of the old, yet still working EOS450d, I run into weird problem. I was able to try two different ef-s 18-55 kit lenses. My lens won't focus (I suspect use of the focus ring instead of zoom by son); yet the focusing (in the same M mode) works perfectly with my Tamron 70-200, EF mount.
Yesterday I had a chance to try other 18-55 EF-S second handed lens but I got the very same problem. Owner borrowed me his EF lens (I think 50mm L Canon) and again, without any change, focusing was working.
Does anyone have any idea, why EF-S lenses won't focus, while EF would? If the problem would be in the pins, then neither would work, I suppose.
While it might be possible that both ef-s lenses were having the same problem, I'd say chances are slim. In the close future I'll be replacing that body, but still good for son to learn how to shoot..
Thanks for any tips.
W_K
Solved! Go to Solution.
09-02-2024 02:10 PM - edited 09-02-2024 10:09 PM
Hi and welcome;
As my respected colleague Brian has said, there are many versions of the EF-S 18-55 lens - if the lens came with the camera then it is likely the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS version. This is one of the early ones (those that are not identified with an STM) and use a mechanical focusing system, while the STM uses a focus by wire (nod to Demetrius). The STM version can be manually focused when the AF/MF switch is set to AF, but the earlier versions that have gearing to do the focusing can get mis-aligned, if manual focus is attempted while set to AF - you may hear a rather grinding noise as the gears don't mesh properly.
You allude to your son using the focusing ring instead of the zoom ring. If the camera was in AF mode at the time, that is exactly what will throw out the gearing mechanism and stop it for focusing properly. Since you then suggest that you got the focusing with the Tamron, and EF-S 18-55 STM, that underpins my diagnosis.
I would suggest that the camera is likely fine, but the older 18-55 IS USM now has its gearing misaligned and will not focus properly. You can try to wrench the gearing back into position, (another colleague @Ebiggs1 has a technique for that) but if it is, even after realignment, this could be repeated.
Obviously, much depends on your long-term intentions regarding the retention of this camera as to whether it is viable to replace the optic, but if you think it would be worthwhile, I would suggest instead getting the excellent EF-S 18-135 IS STM or USM lens - both are optically very similar.
It will offer lightning fast, silent and precise focus-by-wire (so no danger if manually focused while in AF mode), a much greater focal range as a walk-about lens, better optics, and better image stabilization.
Canon don't seem to have these available new or refurbished at the moment, but if you go to KEH.com, which is a reputable reseller, you can look for this lens and they rate their products' condition. They come with a warranty. See: Used Camera Lenses For Sale | Buy & Sell Used Lenses - KEH at KEH Camera - just do a search for Canon EF-S 18-135 - you should come up with two types: STM and USM. The former are older, but almost as good as the USM version and both focus by wire.
Here are some photos taken with that model lens USM version: the first one of the sparrow is significantly cropped to produce the next image, which is a great test of an optic to see how it will deal with that. The image of the watch was taken through a jeweler's window.EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135@135mm, f/5.6, 1/200sec, ISO-2000
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@135mm, f/5.6, 1/200sec, ISO-2000
EOS 80D, 135mm, f/5.6, 1/250sec, ISO-125
EOS 80D, 135mm, f/5.6, 1/800sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@24mm, f/7.1, 1/1600sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@35mm, f/7.1, 1/1000sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@135mm, f/7.1, 1/320sec, ISO-100
Since you are using the 450D, which is a lot older than the 80d the images above were shot on, I thought this one, shot on the 400D with the 18-135 might be of interest. The statue is of a miner from the 19th Century and with respect to his age I processed him to greyscale.EOS 400D, EF-S 18-135@42mm, f/9, 1/320sec, ISO-400
08-20-2024 08:10 AM
wounded_knee,
The first thing I think you need to find out, is if the problem is restricted to that particular 18-55 version of the lens. Is there any way you can try another EF-S lens of a different focal length? A camera store or another friend perhaps?
I don't see any inherent reason wh6 an EF lens would work, but an EF-S lens wouldn't, unless, as you say, one of the contacts on your camera was damaged.
Steve Thomas
09-02-2024 04:49 AM
Hi Steve, it took a bit more time, but: I got the focusing with EF-S 18-55 STM. I'm quite puzzled why the classic motor would not work. The only thing I can think of is the voltage (current,..) that moves the motor..
Solution is still the same (get the new body or lens), but I'd love to learn more about possible root cause..
09-02-2024 12:06 PM
What do you mean by "classic motor". Canon has never used an AF motor in the camera body. In fact the EF Mount was the world's first all electronic lens Mount. Any EF or EF-S will work on your camera regardless of age. What more than likely happened with the old lens is that the gears are broken or out of alignment. I would look in to the STM variant of the lens as a replacement. It uses a much better and faster AF motor than older versions which use Micro Motor which is very slow and was dirse released in 1993.
09-02-2024 12:12 PM
If the body focuses with a range of different lenses, then it's unlikely to be the body itself.
Some of the earlier EF-S 18-55mm lenses rotate the front of the lens when autofocusing, and if the lens focus ring is moved then the possibility of damage arises.
I looked on the Canon Inc camera museum website and it lists 9 different models of the EF-S 18-55mm lens so it is important that you identify which one you have. I think it is highly unlikely for a camera to stop being able to focus all EF-S 18-55 lenses, it is almost surely a problem with the specific 18-55mm lenses you tried.
09-02-2024 02:10 PM - edited 09-02-2024 10:09 PM
Hi and welcome;
As my respected colleague Brian has said, there are many versions of the EF-S 18-55 lens - if the lens came with the camera then it is likely the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS version. This is one of the early ones (those that are not identified with an STM) and use a mechanical focusing system, while the STM uses a focus by wire (nod to Demetrius). The STM version can be manually focused when the AF/MF switch is set to AF, but the earlier versions that have gearing to do the focusing can get mis-aligned, if manual focus is attempted while set to AF - you may hear a rather grinding noise as the gears don't mesh properly.
You allude to your son using the focusing ring instead of the zoom ring. If the camera was in AF mode at the time, that is exactly what will throw out the gearing mechanism and stop it for focusing properly. Since you then suggest that you got the focusing with the Tamron, and EF-S 18-55 STM, that underpins my diagnosis.
I would suggest that the camera is likely fine, but the older 18-55 IS USM now has its gearing misaligned and will not focus properly. You can try to wrench the gearing back into position, (another colleague @Ebiggs1 has a technique for that) but if it is, even after realignment, this could be repeated.
Obviously, much depends on your long-term intentions regarding the retention of this camera as to whether it is viable to replace the optic, but if you think it would be worthwhile, I would suggest instead getting the excellent EF-S 18-135 IS STM or USM lens - both are optically very similar.
It will offer lightning fast, silent and precise focus-by-wire (so no danger if manually focused while in AF mode), a much greater focal range as a walk-about lens, better optics, and better image stabilization.
Canon don't seem to have these available new or refurbished at the moment, but if you go to KEH.com, which is a reputable reseller, you can look for this lens and they rate their products' condition. They come with a warranty. See: Used Camera Lenses For Sale | Buy & Sell Used Lenses - KEH at KEH Camera - just do a search for Canon EF-S 18-135 - you should come up with two types: STM and USM. The former are older, but almost as good as the USM version and both focus by wire.
Here are some photos taken with that model lens USM version: the first one of the sparrow is significantly cropped to produce the next image, which is a great test of an optic to see how it will deal with that. The image of the watch was taken through a jeweler's window.EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135@135mm, f/5.6, 1/200sec, ISO-2000
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@135mm, f/5.6, 1/200sec, ISO-2000
EOS 80D, 135mm, f/5.6, 1/250sec, ISO-125
EOS 80D, 135mm, f/5.6, 1/800sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@24mm, f/7.1, 1/1600sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@35mm, f/7.1, 1/1000sec, ISO-100
EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135USM@135mm, f/7.1, 1/320sec, ISO-100
Since you are using the 450D, which is a lot older than the 80d the images above were shot on, I thought this one, shot on the 400D with the 18-135 might be of interest. The statue is of a miner from the 19th Century and with respect to his age I processed him to greyscale.EOS 400D, EF-S 18-135@42mm, f/9, 1/320sec, ISO-400
09-03-2024 03:04 AM
Thank you everyone for your inputs; and sorry for the confusion about "classic motor" - I meant to indicate the difference between STM and Micro motor (always in the lens).
The biggest source of my surprise was that other 18-55 I had borrowed had the same issue (and seller claimed it was working, can't confirm).
I'll be getting the other similar lens, looking out for for perhaps Sigma 18-55 f/2.8 or Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 or similar (after all, 450d has limited range of usable ISO). 18-135 is nice lense, already got my loved 70-200 2.8, so I need to cover wide range. And, one day in distance, finally upgrading to full frame (already in doing so for the last 15 years :D)
I'll accept the last post as the solution, but thanks to everyone who contributed. Much appreciated.
09-03-2024 03:57 AM
The 450D will be a great training tool. By the time you decide on an upgrade for yourself, I would suggest considering a Mirrorless camera - such as one of the R6 series or the R8 - these are extremely capable FF cameras, and they have significant improvements in dynamic range, focus and tracking. The R6 series also has in-body Image stabilization, which is great for hand-held photography.
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