Do Canon white balance presents change tint?

[barnettgs]

Hello,

I was wondering that does any of Canon White Balance Presets (Daylight, Cloudly etrc) changes tint?

Unlike the K Colour Temperature?

[stevet1]

Barnett,

If I understand your question correctly, the answer would be yes.

On my camera, Daylight is equivalent to 5200K. Cloudy is equivalent to 6000K, and Shade to about 7000K. Tungsten is in the 3200-3500 range.

You can find these online

Steve Thomas

[barnettgs]

Thanks, yes I know these K figures for the presets, although I was trying to find the information on Canon site, whether the presets do change the tint or not.

I couldn't find anything other that the Google's AI search says Canon does!

If so, would I be better off using a custom K Colour temperature that will not change the tint?

[stevet1]

barnettgs,

I'm not sure about the tint. Try taking two pictures of the exact same thing. One with the Daylight preset, and one with 5200K, and compare them. See if there is a difference.

Steve Thomas

[TimBird]

Theoretically speaking, Color Temperature is the shifting of color balance relative to frequency of the frequency of the waves in the light as it illuminates the scene. Put simply, in early morning and late afternoon, the light from the sun appears to be more amber/red in color, while light in the midday times when the sun is higher in the sky tends to be more blue. But understand that ALL color (perception) varies on a continuum… similar to the way the colors of the rainbow blend together rather than being separated by distinct demarcations between colors. That in mind, a change in color temperature leads to a shift in adjacent colors in the spectrum. IE: Blue (a color primary) is close to violet and cyan (color secondaries.) Similarly, Red (primary) is neighbored by magenta and orange/yellow (secondaries.) So, a shift in color temperature changes the balance of color secondaries as much as the primaries. So this, by definition, must involve color secondaries… or “tint”

as for Canon specifically, there is a definite color science in the design and performance of the imaging sensors in the cameras that distinguish them from other brands (most notably, Sony.) From this, one might assume that all manufacturers have a color “bias” based on how their sensors capture and process color. Canon is preferred by many photographers BECAUSE of its color science and how it favors certain types of photography… ie: people vs landscapes vs studio portraits, etc.

[kvbarkley]

I am not sure what you mean by “tint”, but it certainly changes the colors in the image. For example, if you shoot with daylight color balance on a scene lit by fluorescent lights, the colors will be greenish. Shooting with the fluorescent color balance will correct those colors to what the eye perceives. 
thw white balance changes the colors because our visual system changes the perceived colors based on the color of the light. 

[Jkarl]

One way to see what the white balance presets do with the color is to open a raw file in Canon DPP and change the presets or the actual temperature settings. 

[johnrmoyer]

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@barnettgs wrote:

Thanks, yes I know these K figures for the presets, although I was trying to find the information on Canon site, whether the presets do change the tint or not.

I couldn't find anything other that the Google's AI search says Canon does!

If so, would I be better off using a custom K Colour temperature that will not change the tint?

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I cannot remember where I read it, but this is my impression. I hope some of my guesses might be helpful anyway.

It seems to me that Canon uses a three dimensional color model and that temperature Kelvin is a curve line through that solid. It is difficult to get from in camera color temperature to exactly what changes were made to the direction or location of that curve. The only promise I have seen from Canon is that the "Standard" picture style will produce similar images from different models of Canon cameras. 

I seem to remember reading that Canon uses either HSL or HSV color model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL_and_HSV 

Canon DPP and Style editor offer a simplified interface to this three dimensional space. If using another raw developer and not DPP, then one might use picture style "Faithful" or "Neutral" in camera or have DPP save a linear 16 bit TIFF. Gimp also offers a simplified interface: https://docs.gimp.org/2.10/en/gimp-tool-hue-saturation.html 

When editing in DPP, ones specifies departures the in camera settings and not absolute values. I would prefer to also have access to the parameters for the color curve being used and not just parameters for departure from the in camera color curve.

Newer Canon cameras have an option to use the PQ color space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_quantizer by setting the camera to capture a HEIF image. In this case, the color model is set by the standard. It seems to me that the behavior of color temperature is then altered.

A 2 dimensional version of Kelvin line: 

I have also found some of these papers interesting: https://www.color.org/whitepapers.xalter and this one describes PQ: https://www.color.org/hdr/04-Timo_Kunkel.pdf 

https://snapshot.canon-asia.com/article/eng/4-ways-to-capture-colours-more-accurately-in-photography lists the Canon camera color temperature presets. 

[stevet1]

barnettgs asked

"was wondering that does any of Canon White Balance Presets (Daylight, Cloudly etrc) changes tint?

Unlike the K Colour Temperature?"

Tint is defined in the dictionary as "any of various shades of a color"

Take red for example when you say, "Red", are you talking about Ruby red, or Cherry Red, or Rasberry Red, or Fire Hydrant Red?

I don't know if there is any way of determining if a White Balance Preset changes the tint from its corresponding Kelvin temperature, other than to do as I suggested earlier and take two pictures of the exact same thing , one at a Preset and at its corresponding Kelvin setting and compare them.

You might get a variation, because  I think the Presets are an estimate, or even a range of temperatures.

Steve Thomas

[johnrmoyer]

The "tint" in question appears to me to be labeled "hue" in camera menus, in DPP, and in the Canon style editor. It provides adjustment along a second dimension on the color model and lightness or saturation would be the third dimension depending upon whether HSV or HSL. Changing the hue will change the apparent tint.

At best, temperature Kelvin describes the peak of a distribution and not the shape of the distribution nor is place in the 3d model.

Since the PQ color space is defined by the standard, one might be able to see how changing color temperature changes hue by setting the camera to record HIF files.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2100 

25 page PDF https://www.color.org/groups/displays/20190215_High_Dynamic_Range_imaging_and_Hybrid_Log-Gamma.pdf about the role of ICC when using ITU-R Recommendation BT.2100 mentions how PQ fits in.