DSLR 101

[ebiggs1]

Here is a sample of RAW and how it can help make your photos better. 

Normal RAW exposure.

Normal exposure jpg.  They look pretty close because you are looking at a computer monitor.  The RAW has been converted to jpg in post.  The original jpg was done by the camera, a 1Ds Mk III in this case.

However, suspose you got something wrong. In this case I under exposed it by 3 stops.  But it could be any condition.  WB, color balance, saturation, and on and on, etc.

Corrected RAW.

Corrected jpg.  But below lets look a little closer.

Especially check the shadows. Can you see the difference?  Need a better look?  OK, here is a 100% crop of that enlargment.

It should be blantly obivious that RAW is the way to go.  All else was equal. Same camera. Same lens. Same time of day. Same, same!

Get Lightroom................

[ebiggs1]

BTW, I might mention, the required adjustment for the jpg underexposure was maxed out.  The RAW still has room to go, however.

[jazzman1]

I follow what you've said, I've looked at your pics, raw and jpeg.  But still don't understand.  Looking at the 2 examples, I'm not seeing what you say I'm suppose to.  You say look in the dark areas......????????????

[RobertTheFat]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Here is a sample of RAW and how it can help make your photos better. 

Normal RAW exposure.

Normal exposure jpg.  They look pretty close because you are looking at a computer monitor.  The RAW has been converted to RAW in post.  ...

I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to say.

[ebiggs1]

Good lord, Bob from Boston, I need a keeper.    You are absolutely correct.

"The RAW has been converted to RAW  jpg in post.  ..."  I edited it!

I do disagree on the pixels vs inches, however.  Not saying in time a person shouldn't use it, but for starters it is far easier to understand the size of monitor they have.  When you teach people, almost anything, you need to start slow with baby steps.

Another reason I want Kareem to just use one ot two or perhaps three pictures until he understands DPP ( preferably LR or PSE).  I want him to use "P" mode and AF for now.  With evaluative meter and a set ISO of say 200 to 400.

If he insists on DPP, maybe you can give better pointers than I.

[ebiggs1]

"You say look in the dark areas......?"

Actually you can see the difference everywhere.  It is just far easier to see how a jpg breaks down  in the "shadows".  Especially when you need severe editing.  Like three stops. 

If you just intend to shoot snapshots, than I will concede you have little reason to change to RAW.  However, RAW is so simple anymore, it is truly a waste if you don't.

You bought a top of the mark DSLR and a top of the mark "L" lens.  Better than anyone you will likely encounter on a regular basis.  But you want to hamper all that goodness by using jpg?  

Actually, Kareem, you are not very different than most people I meet or who have attended my class.  They stick with jpg and are quite happy.  But they get the same reasoning that I just gave you.  The ultimate decission is yours and what you are confortable with.  You are not wrong to use jpg and like I say, it does depend on your requirments.

[jazzman1]

Biggs, Biggs, have you not read my previous posts??????  In a post to the other thread I said I'm now doing all my pics in RAW!!!!!   And I also said I would use DPP only untill I can get Lightroom.  You sound as if I'm resisting your suggestions...I'm not.

My instructor today in class, "photography 100, told me the same thing you have about LR.  In fact later this year they're doing a class just on LR, as they do a few times a year.  I learned so much today about my camera and using it.  Now I know how to use most of it's features.  I also learned about using P and M mode.  I did'nt retain all the details they taught today, but I did comprehend the basics of using P and M mode.  I understand it alot, of how one makes M setting and why.  I also know how to check my M setting before I snap a pic to see if I have my exposure correct for my shot.  I learned about aperture, ISO, and shutter speed settings and why and when to use them.  It helps so much to have hands on ones camera when taking instructions and the help of the instructor to answer questions and show you when and where you went wrong.  I will be able to understand and follow you guys instruction better now.  Biggs you have to stop assuming any delay on my part, of taking a suggestion, is from my resistance to progress.

Biggs, no offense, but I do agree with Bob as to what he said about inches vs. pixels in DPP.  In fact, using the exact method Bob described with the pexels, is how I figured out how to make the proper settings in DPP to post pics here on this site.  After you change the data in the box, inch measurement disappears, and you only see measurements in pexels.  Maybe your way is best for you, but I found the correct pic size using pixels, and think as Bob said .......one should forget about inches in DPP and just use pixels.  Of course the 950 size max I determined I would use, is only for uploading pics to this site.  One can make them big as one wants I suppose for other uses.  In that instance maybe inches would work, I dunno.

[jazzman1]

Biggs I will certainly use the settings you suggest here.  After class today I thought of dropping my ISO to 100.  I was using 400.  But I will try your 200-400 setting.  I'm all for moving to P mode and AF.  In fact, that's what I've been using all week.  I got off auto a few weeks ago.  Basically I will be using the setting you named from now on till I stepup from there.  I noticed a few things lately that had got by me.  On several pics in the last few weeks I thought I had taken pics outta focus.  But on close examination I realised my camera had focused on something closer than what I was aimong at.  That made the object I was trying to capture, out of focus, and the closer object in perfect focus....like a tree leaf for instance, or tree, or some other object. near'er to me.

Sorry Biggs, not saying you're wrong about the pics you posted, just that at this point, I don't see what you see far as defects in that Jpeg pic.  Not you, it's on me, I just don't see what you see yet.  My eye is not trained enough yet to see it.

[RobertTheFat]

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@jazzman1 wrote:

Biggs, Biggs, have you not read my previous posts??????  In a post to the other thread I said I'm now doing all my pics in RAW!!!!!   And I also said I would use DPP only untill I can get Lightroom.  You sound as if I'm resisting your suggestions...I'm not.

My instructor today in class, "photography 100, told me the same thing you have about LR.  In fact later this year they're doing a class just on LR, as they do a few times a year.  I learned so much today about my camera and using it.  Now I know how to use most of it's features.  I also learned about using P and M mode.  I did'nt retain all the details they taught today, but I did comprehend the basics of using P and M mode.  I understand it alot, of how one makes M setting and why.  I also know how to check my M setting before I snap a pic to see if I have my exposure correct for my shot.  I learned about aperture, ISO, and shutter speed settings and why and when to use them.  It helps so much to have hands on ones camera when taking instructions and the help of the instructor to answer questions and show you when and where you went wrong.  I will be able to understand and follow you guys instruction better now.  Biggs you have to stop assuming any delay on my part, of taking a suggestion, is from my resistance to progress.

Biggs, no offense, but I do agree with Bob as to what he said about inches vs. pixels in DPP.  In fact, using the exact method Bob described with the pexels, is how I figured out how to make the proper settings in DPP to post pics here on this site.  After you change the data in the box, inch measurement disappears, and you only see measurements in pexels.  Maybe your way is best for you, but I found the correct pic size using pixels, and think as Bob said .......one should forget about inches in DPP and just use pixels.  Of course the 950 size max I determined I would use, is only for uploading pics to this site.  One can make them big as one wants I suppose for other uses.  In that instance maybe inches would work, I dunno.

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Inches work best when inches are the ultimate objective. Printers, for example, take their input in pixels, but their output is usually understood and measured in inches. So when the desired result is a print, it may be easier to set your pixels per inch to the resolution of the target printer and do your planning in inches. But when your objective is to maintain as much resolution as possible while conforming to a file size restriction, it can be easier to work in pixels. The point is that neither way of thinking is right and the other wrong; you get to choose which works in different situations.

Similarly, there's no perfect photo editor, and the choice among them depends on your particular situation. DPP, for example, is especially good when you're switching around among different computers, because all of the editing data can be carried along in a copy of the original RAW file. Lightroom, OTOH, maintains a database of subjects and keywords that can be vital if you have a very large number of pictures and need to be able to quickly identify those that are related in some way. Photoshop excels by allowing you to manipulate large picture elements like figures, backgrounds, etc. Depending on the type of photography you do, you may never need that capability; but if you do, only PS and possibly a few other high-end editors will suffice.

Please be clear on one thing if you're not already: Ernie and I aren't arguing to get you to do things his way or mine. We're just telling you what works for us, in the hope that you'll find enough of it useful that it can help you become a better photographer. And it's important for you to realize that Ernie has had teaching experience while I haven't, and that while I'm actually a bit older than he is, his involvement in the game has been a lot more continuous and intensive than mine has. And you're absolutely doing the right thing by taking the hands-on class. You're obviously paying attention; and if you follow it up with self-directed practice, it can do you a lot of good.

[jazzman1]

Hey Bob good to hear from you so soon.  !st off let me say for the record I don't think you and especially Biggs are trying to get me to do things you guys way.  Biggs has said many times he only makes suggestions and the choice to follow it or not is purely mine or whoever you guys tell it to.  I know that.  What I was saying is sometimes I feel that Biggs thinks I'm dragging my feet to move forward out of stubborn resistance.  That I have'nt done.  I have had valid reasons, I think, for not making a decision to move when asked.  I did'nt at 1st want to shoot in RAW because the files they made were too big, and problematic for me to do much with.  I did'nt know at 1st I could use DPP to process RAW to Jpeg, nor did I even know how to use DPP.  I did'nt get PSE 13, nor LR because I don't have the funds to spare right now.  I bought new lens not because I was jumping the gun and making bad decisions, it was because of circumstances that arose and realisinng I could save alot of money on deals, getting lens and gear now that I would buy soon anyway....and probably at the regular price.  All I ask is you and biggs give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm thinking things through and see some things I do as in my own best interest at the time.  I feel that my judgement is questioned at times merely because I'm a newbie that's all.  And maybe because of past experience with other newbie's.  Sometimes you guys time frame for me to move on something is out of my comfort zone at the time.  iI's not that I won't do it, but just let me move at my own pace.  Believe me, If I decide not to do a thing, I will say that in no uncertain terms.

 I repect Biggs and your knowledge of what you say, no problem with that. 

Bob it's hard to believe you're older than Biggs and me.  Your pic looks so much younger.  My hat off to you, a power greater than yourself is watching over you my friend.  Hope you think him much.  Anyhow I thank you and Biggs for all your help, and you guys have been a tremdous aid in my learning.  I only have a 3 class course in photography 100, 101, and 102.  I hope I have you guys for far longer than that.  The things I've learned here since I came, helped me understand the things taught today.  And no I don't think you're trying to push your ideas on me, I know you're only trying to help.   Biggs just have had to deal with so many stubborn and beligerent students I think, that he's become gunshy and nervous and thinks everyone wants to run LOL.