Canon EOS 90D, M6 Mark II

[John_SD]

Both new cameras were officially announced today by Canon. I think the M6 Mark II will be the sleeper hit of the season, despite not having a built-in EVF. 

And yes, I am well aware these cameras aren't made specifically for pros. I still think they will do well in the marketplace, especially the M6. At least I hope so. 

[wq9nsc]

I went from a 1D Mark II to using 1DX and 1DX 2 bodies and it was an easy transition with very little readjustment time. 

BUT even a small change in the ergonomic design is noticeable.  I shoot a lot of sports with the 1DX 2 and 1DX and my typical setup is either a 300 or 400 2.8 prime on the 1DX 2 and a 70-200 2.8 on the 1DX.  At times I change the focus point setup when capturing different aspects of a game, sometimes using a single high precision single point and other times allowing the predictive focus tracking to work with several points. The multicontroller pad buttons for the 1DX are a bit taller than those for the 1DX 2; either works fine but I had to "train" myself that I wasn't touching the wrong control when I first started shooting with both bodies because out of habit you expect the same height difference between the body and control surface with both cameras.  It is a minor thing that I quickly got used to but it shows how something very small is noticeable when you are working by feel under time pressure; sort of like the way it is amazing that a tiny rock barely bigger than a grain of sand feels like a huge rock when it gets inside my shoe when I am running.

Rodger

[ebiggs1]

"I went from a 1D Mark II to using 1DX and 1DX 2 bodies and it was an easy transition with very little readjustment time."

You would have noticed even less, very much less, difference if you had come from a Mk IV.  You were two generations off going from the Mk II to a 1DX.  All of them have changed but very little from one generation to the next one.  Sometime compare a 1D to your 1DX Mk II.  

[ebiggs1]

"I love the D850, which I've had the opportunity to play around with at a local shop."

This D850 almost got me.  I got to spend some quality time (way more than just in a shop) with one and I already had a ton of Nikkor glass.  I stll have friends that do not see the light and still use Nikons.  Anyway one guy let me borrow his D850.  It is utterly a super camera. IQ out of this world. Perhaps still the best there is. 

Ever so often, well actually fairly often, a camera comes along and I can't resist it.  I try believe me I try.  The 90D is doing the same thing but I have not touched one yet.

[ebiggs1]

"The Nikon has buttons so that you can adjust many settings ..."

Some without knowing it.  The D4 has all buttons fixed so accidential pressing won't happen.  All Nikon D series cameras feel almost the same. Just like my 1D feels alomsot like my (1Ds Mk II, 1D MkIIn, 1Ds Mk III, Mk IV) 1DX.  With the D4 Nikon made the wheel larger which helps a lot.

"It is more of an ergonomic than subjective observation."

Whatever you call you are correct, sir!  

[ebiggs1]

John,

This is why I qualified my post.........

"I know to others it (Nikon) is fantastic gear ........"

However,

"... but it's just not a Canon 1 series."

Perhaps it does just come down to how each body feels and its ergonomics effect each individual.  Because both are fantastic miracles of innovation. Back when I started I would have never thought there would be cameras like we have today. 

Canon just won!  

[John_SD]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Perhaps it does just come down to how each body feels and its ergonomics effect each individual.  Because both are fantastic miracles of innovation. Back when I started I would have never thought there would be cameras like we have today. 

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I think you have it right. This stuff about this dial being in a bad spot, or that button being a millimeter farther to the left than one is accumstomed to, etc., is completely subjective and doesn't make the camera an ergonomic failure. 

There are just too many enthusiasts and pros alike singing the praises of Nikon bodies, menus and yes, even glass, to believe that there is some inherent failure of ergonomics or performance related to the products. 

[ebiggs1]

"There are just too many enthusiasts and pros alike singing the praises of Nikon bodies, ... even glass, ..."

I agree with you up to a point.  Canon owns the lens world. Yeah, Nikon makes some really nice lenses but they are no where near the market share that Canon has.  Everything you see on TV is done with Canon lenses for instance.

Could I have been happy if I had to use Nikon gear, of course but I didin't have to.

[Waddizzle]

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@John_SD wrote:

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Perhaps it does just come down to how each body feels and its ergonomics effect each individual.  Because both are fantastic miracles of innovation. Back when I started I would have never thought there would be cameras like we have today. 

---

I think you have it right. This stuff about this dial being in a bad spot, or that button being a millimeter farther to the left than one is accumstomed to, etc., is completely subjective and doesn't make the camera an ergonomic failure. 

There are just too many enthusiasts and pros alike singing the praises of Nikon bodies, menus and yes, even glass, to believe that there is some inherent failure of ergonomics or performance related to the products. 

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I did not say the Nikon bodies are an ergonomic failure.  I am just not a big fan of it.  There is a major difference between controlling the camera with your thumb, and controlling it with your forefinger. It forces me to hold the camera very differently.

With a Canon body, I control the shutter and shutter speed with my forefinger.  My other fingers and my thumb “grip” the body against my palm.  Having a solid grip on the body makes it easy to track moving subjects like BIF.

With a Nikon body I control the shutter with my forefinger and shutte speed with my thumb.  My other fingers “grip” the body against my palm.  This is a looser grip compared to a Canon.  I have not used my D3 for action photography, but I have used my friend’s D500.  

The Nikon has a different feel when it comes to action photography.  But not a deal breaker, just something to get used to.  There isn’t a significant difference when shooting stills or from a tripod/monopod.  

It is the hand holding.  I have to “balance” the Nikon in my hand, so I can use my thumb and forefinger to control the camera.  Whereas with the Canon I do not have to “balance” the camer in my hand, I just grip it and use it.  

I do not spend a lot of time changing focus points with my thumb when shooting because of the abundance of AF points and the great focus tracking in Canon bodies.  With a Canon body, my thumb spends more time holding the body than controlling the camera.  With a Nikon, my thumb has a full time job of controllling the camera, whichis okay for stills.

Maybe I am being subjective.  But the ergonomic differences are significant.  It changes the way the cameras must be held, and the Nikon bodies are more of a balancing act.  No doubt, it is easy to adjust to Nikon bodies for action photography.  I just find the Nikon bodies a little precarious to hold.

[John_SD]

Well, if you were shooting with a D3 or D5 those things must be like trying to take photos with a cinder block. While I was playing around with the D850 at the shop, I didn't feel as though the wheels were going to be a problem for me in terms of an awkward grip, but admittedly there is a difference between the shop and the field. 

Other things, though, will require some muscle-memory retraining for me. The zoom and focus rings are in different spots, even the direction you zoom the lens is different, as you turn it the opposite way from Canon. The lens caps seem to go on different too, and attaching/detaching lenses is different. Also, the scale is backwards as I recall -- positive on the left, negative on the right. WTF?!?! Those things will give me pause for a period of time. The menus seemed intuitve to me, though different from Canon. 

[ebiggs1]

" I was playing around with the D850 at the shop, I didn't feel as though the wheels were going to be a problem for me in terms of an awkward grip, ..."

Neither do or did I. I had to go back and forth every day alomost. I never had any real problems.  I just don't like the 'feel' of the Nikon (pro models) compared to my 1 series. The 1 series just feels better in my hands. I am sure they are but Nikons just don't 'feel' as well built. To me it is even more noticable with the Rebel vs D3500 ranges of cameras. Whatever...........