5D4 versus 6D and lens

[Steves_8]

Hi folks. New member with the inevitable gear question - sorry!

I am an avid enthusiast with some semi-pro (sports) experience many years ago. I now shoot for myself and family but still like to shoot club-level motor sports such as hillclimbs and motorcycle trials, plus creepy crawlies.

I have a 5D3, plus 16-35 f/2.8L, 24-105 f/4L, 70-200 f/2.8L II and 1.4 TC. I also have a Sigma 150mm macro.

The 5D3 has been fantastic, but I have been shooting with it at a fairly high rate for five years. I have no idea what the shutter count is, but it must be up there by now. Consequently, having sold my little motorbike (arthritis made riding it painful), I plan to set the money aside for a new body when my current one dies, or maybe buy a second body now, thus reducing the workload on the first and extending the life of both. I doubt I will want to spend this kind of money on photography again in the future as I'm about to retire.

So, to my quandary. I decided to have a go at shooting video last year and so sold my 24-70mm f/2.8, replacing it with the 24-105 f/4L (to get the IS). Turns out I don't enjoy shooting video and find the 24-105 inferior to the 24-70 in terms of IQ, though not drastically.

Do I spend all the money on a new 5D4, or do I sell the 24-105 which would give me enough money for a 6D2 and 24-70mm f/2.8L II? I have read some troubling reviews about the 6D's dynamic range, but I know reviwers tend to go a bit overboard with issues that don't actually mean much 'in the real world'.

Apologies for the novel!

[RobertTheFat]

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@ebiggs1wrote:

"I (don't) see  logic in buying a 5d4 (or the 6d2) before your 5d3 dies."

A valid point. There wasn't a great deal of upscale between the two.  Other factors must override that reasoning.

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One "other factor" is that nobody who has been in a position of being relied on to get the shot will dare to be caught without a spare of any mission-critical equipment. You, of all people, obviously know that.

One of my most vivid memories is of the time when my 580EX flash quit while I was taking formal shots of our City Manager and his wife, minutes before his inauguration. They had to wait while I swapped on the 580EX II from my other camera. (The first thing I did when I got home that evening was order a 600EX-RT.)

[ebiggs1]

I'll bet I have a half dozen flashes, maybe more, downstairs, I never use them.  I can't remember the last time I did.

If I need light I take my stand lights and that isn't very often either.

[Steves_8]

Another factor drawing me (slightly) toward the 6D2 is weight. The arthritis in my hands is starting to affect my ability to hold a heavy camera/lens combo steady. The 6D's lighter weight, in combination with the similarly-light 24-105 (if I keep it) might make a good combination for travel. I bought a Lumix LX100 for that job and, while it's fantastic for a compact and produces fine results, I miss the DSLR when visiting iconic locations.

[ebiggs1]

"Do I spend all the money on a new 5D4, or do I sell the 24-105 which would give me enough money for a 6D2 and 24-70mm f/2.8L II?"

I can't see anybody considering the 5D Mk IV and the 6D Mk II in the same sentence unless price is the only factor.  Not being a fan of consumer grade cameras for myself I didn't and don't care for the 6D line.  So consumer vs Pro level?  Which do you prefer.

Of course you want, or should want anyway, the 5D Mk IV and the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Lens.  This is as good as it gets.  But I come back to that first issue which is price.

If cost is the overriding issue I would go for the 5D Mk IV and keep the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens.  Your 5D Mk III should have already shown you that!

[Steves_8]

Thanks for the responses so far.  I should provide some clarifications:

1. Cost is a big factor. I tried to make that clear but failed. I plan to sink the money from the sale of my motorbike into camera gear, but no more. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on photography over the years but, with retirement a year or so away, that has to stop - it's only a hobby now. The money from the sale will buy me a 5D4 body plus change or a 6D2 body and 24-70 mk2 if I also sell my 24-105 f4L.
2. Weight is also a factor. I can cope with the 5D3 plus 70-200mm f/2.8L for short periods when shooting sports, but I am attracted to the lighter 6D2 for holiday photography, when I will be carrying the thing all day. In that situation, the 24-105 might get a reprieve due to it being lighter than the 24-70.
3. I do worry about IQ, less so about 'handling' of the 6D2. Nor do I worry much about the waterproofing etc. I shoot only for fun these days, which means, if the weather is inclement, I just don't go! Here in Oztralia though, I rarely find myself cancelling and the light is usually good. I am a bit particular about dynamic range though and sometimes find even the 5D3 a bit limited in that respect, though I admit I am not the world's most diligent or patient post-processor - I use Adobe Camera Raw only, rarely resorting to Photoshop.
4. I have shot with two bodies in the past. This is a great way to cut down on lens swaps and the attendant 'downtime' at fast-moving events. However, the combined weight would be a problem for me these days, so I will probably stick to a single body. To be honest, my arthritis is progressing so fast that I might have to give up DSLRs within a year or three anyway, and resort to the Lumix LX100 😞
5. Just putting the money in the bank and waiting for the 5D3 to die is an option, but I know that I might find some other use for the money if I wait too long. Once I am retired, I will be reluctant to spend more money on cameras. I won't rule it out though, becsause it does have merit, not least is waiting for the price of the 5D4 to come down! If I bought another body now however, the mileage on both bodies would be half what it is with one, meaning I would get longer life out of them. I hope that makes sense. I don't care whether I have 'current' gear, only that I can take pics that are good enough for me and the folks I give them to.

[ebiggs1]

I still believe your decision comes down to price, weight which is less than 4 1/2 ounces and do you want a pro level camera or not.  There is no doubt both are capable cameras.

[Steves_8]

Sorry, but you guys will have to ignore me for a little while, because my thinking is muddier than I realised. There is now another option on the table, involving the 7D2 ...

The internet did this to me. I was innocently browsing through various reviews of the 5D4 and 6D2 when I saw a quote about how good the 7D2 is. Now, I have owned and used the original 7D and liked it, but knew little about the MK2, so off I went down the rabbit hole.

Turns out that the 7D2 can do follow-focus for shooting video. I tried video with the 5D3 and hated it, my principal problem being keeping focus on moving subjects. I couldn't be bothered putting a full video rig together including motorised follow-focus (remember the arthritis folks!)

That 7D2 looks a nifty beast in terms of capabilities. I'm not sold on the APS-C format, due to the crop factor (I prefer shooting wide to long), but that's not a deal breaker while the 5D3 is still working OK*. Besides, the 'extra reach' of the crop sensor would be handy from time to time. I would keep the 24-105L if I buy the 7D2, because it's a good lens for video.

I'm wondering if the 5D3 and 7D2 might actually be a good combination, allowing a pretty broad set of capabilities.

* Turns out I'm a more economical shooter than I thought. Shutter count on the 5D3 is only 30K - lower than I expected - so there's plenty of life left in it yet, especially if it shares duty from here with a 2nd body.

[Waddizzle]

‘Turns out that the 7D2 can do follow focus for shooting video.”

I do not know what you are reading, but the average user will always give glowing reviews of their own gear, even power users. 

Actually, no.  The 7D2 cannot do “follow focus” for video, and neither can the 5D3.  The second generation of “Dual Pixel CMOS AF” sensor cameras can do “follow focus”.  The 6D2 can “follow focus”, as can the 80D. If you hated video on a 5D3, then you will be equally disappointed shooting video with a 7D2.

The ability to do focus tracking while shooting video only means the camera can smoothly track a moving face, but only after you have manually selected and focused on it.  The feature is no substitute for someone actually operating the camera.

Between the 5D3, 6D, 6D2, 80D, and 7D2, the 7D2 is be the last camera out of my bag.  I have used them all, and own all of them except the 5D3.  Out of that group, while the 7D2 may have the highest frame rate, it also has the worst high ISO performance.  The 7D2 is my “bright sunny day, and want extra reach” camera, which does not mean it is my first choice on bright sunny days and i want extra reach.

My high ISO limit on my 7D2 is ISO 800.  Some users may use a higher ISO with the 7D2.  With the 80D, I would push that to ISO 1600.  With the 6D/6D2, I would go as high as ISO 12800. A friend says he does go past ISO 6400 with his 5D3 very often.

The 80D and 6D2 share the same 45 point AF system, which I think is at least the equal of the one in the 7D2, which pioneered the next generation “Dual Pixel AF” advanced focusing systems found in the 5D4, 80D, and 6D2.

The combination of 5D3 and 7D2 is actually a good one.  I frequently go out carrying a 6D with a 70-200mm, and the 7D2 with a 100-400mm.  But, I only carried the 7D2 on bright sunny days.  Otherwise, I carried the 1D4 as my crop body, which is at least as good as the 7D2 at ISO 800.  Now, I most often carry the 6D and the 6D2 on action shoots.

[Steves_8]

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@Waddizzle

 "I do not know what you are reading, but the average user will always give glowing reviews of their own gear, even power users."

Thanks, but I avoid the fanboy and sponsored reviews and try to find unbiased 'pro' reviews, positive AND negative. Not easy!

I know what you mean about the 7D2's 'follow focus' and realise it's not the same as properly-executed focus pulling, but there's no way I can achieve the latter without significant expense and weight. The 7d2's 'focus tracking' is flawed, to be sure, but I think it would help me a lot with the kind of video I want to do.

I shall continue with my analysis paralysis 

[Waddizzle]

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@Steves_8wrote:

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@Waddizzle

 "I do not know what you are reading, but the average user will always give glowing reviews of their own gear, even power users."

Thanks, but I avoid the fanboy and sponsored reviews and try to find unbiased 'pro' reviews, positive AND negative. Not easy!

I know what you mean about the 7D2's 'follow focus' and realise it's not the same as properly-executed focus pulling, but there's no way I can achieve the latter without significant expense and weight. The 7d2's 'focus tracking' is flawed, to be sure, but I think it would help me a lot with the kind of video I want to do.

I shall continue with my analysis paralysis 

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The 7D2 cannot track focus very well in video mode.  Take a look at some of the YouTube videos about the 80D, which has the next generation Dual Pixel AF sensor.  It can track a face very smoothly when shooting video.  You just have to focus on a face, instead of letting the camera do whatever it wants.

If you want to shoot video, the 7D2 is not one of the better choices, not compared to camera bodies latest Dual Pixel AF sensors, like the 5D4, 80D, 6D2.  I think the 77D can AF in video mode.  I am not sure about the T7i, though.  The latest sensor is VERY smooth in video mode, unlike its’ predecessors, which tend to lag just a bit.