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Problem with 400mm L 5.6 clarity

pahranagatman
Contributor

On image tests my 400mm L 5.6 is performing significantly less sharp than my new 100-400mm lense. The only think I can think of that would have damaged the 400 was condensaton in the body from temperature changes. Shots are all tribod and cable triggered. No filters on either lens. This is of course cropped way in. Any ideas? The 400 is about 9 months old. Can it be cleaned internally?

 

400L.jpg100-400L.jpg

7D, EFS 18-55 IS, 400mm L 5.6f, 100-400mm L
69 REPLIES 69

"Ouch. did I rub you the wrong way or something?"

 

Absolutely not!  I am just totally confused or surprised, maybe is a better word.  I am also going to repeat my advise, below.

 

"I am going to recommend you do a lot of learning on how to use this lens.  Big tele's have a learning curve to get the best results from them.  Besides they must be rock steady as (is the) 1/500 a minimun SS (shutter speed) for such a lens." 

This assumes you are at the 400mm side where 90% of the time is where it is used.

 

You said,

"is there that much a difference between 75-300 aps and 100-400L and Full Frame ?"

 

There is a difference. How much is dependent on the person's point of view I guess.  I see a great deal but I don't think that is your issue.

 

You said,

"I have already done handhel shots at 1/13th with the lens stabilization off ..."

 

You are way ahead of me as that is not possibile for me.  I can't help with that as I can't do it.

 

You said,

"BTW up close it is clearly superior to my 100-300 L lens (both set to 300) but far away it is inferior to that lens. though I have not looked at images on a larger display yet."

 

Neither the 100-300mm nor the 100-400mm are stealar lenses in the sharpness catagoey.  That is not their best feature. Conviemence is.  For instance the EF 400mm f5.6L (prime) can deliver close to twice the precieved MP to the sensor that either of these two.

 

The web is full of help  and manuals for any of the stuff you have.  All manuals are availble from Canon web site for d/l.

However, my friend, you need to do this first.  

"I suggest you get it on a tripod. On a bright daylighted go outside and give it a go.  Set ISO at 800 so to keep the SS (shutter speed) high. What you are doing is proving nothing.  You can even use Tv and fix the SS (shutter speed) to 1/500 and even 1/1000."

 

EB
EOS 1D, EOS 1D MK IIn, EOS 1D MK III, EOS 1Ds MK III, EOS 1D MK IV and EOS 1DX and many lenses.


@nerys wrote:
I just got a 100-400 L for my 5d mark ii

My p&s takes sharper images (little z200 casio) quite upset as the $900 i spent is a literal fortune to me.

How do i do this micro adjustment thing? Is there a good url for how to use this camera also stuck in d+ so cant go below iso 200.

Thanks!

Do you have a "protection" filter on the 100-400mm?

 

If so, try it again without it. I've heard many complain of their 100-400mm's sharpness... and the only problem was the filter they had on it. This particular lens doesn't "play well" with filters, for some reason.

 

Also, I would never turn off the IS when shooting with this lens handheld. I've always struggled to get steady shots with push/pull type zooms, but I hardly ever turn off IS on any lens (and I've shot with some of them for going on 15 years now).

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 


@yoramp wrote:

Hello guys, thanks a lot for your responds. I use a very steady 055 Manfrotto tripod with a 3D head. I'm a very experienced photographer - I nearly certain it is not my mal technique usage. I also used very high speed shutter so if it was a movement it shuld have been eliminated or unseen. I'm quit sure there is some calibration needed. I never had such a broblem before. I guess I'll have to send it to the Canon lab to find out..

Here is another picture with a stedy subject, same tripod, 2500 shutter speed.As you can see it is cropped to 100% enlargement. You can clesrly see this annoying dubble image.

Thanks again for your try to help.

cu-400mm-1.JPG       


Looks a lot like camera shake to me. Are you sure it was 1/2500 shutter speed?

 

Your posted images must have been "saved for the web"... all the EXIF data is stripped off them. If it were there, we could look at it and check things like this ourselves.

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 

"Looks a lot like camera shake to me."

 

I am in step with Alan Myers 100%.

EB
EOS 1D, EOS 1D MK IIn, EOS 1D MK III, EOS 1Ds MK III, EOS 1D MK IV and EOS 1DX and many lenses.

my 100-400 is making similar images.

Here are some I shot

http://i.imgur.com/lYGQbOD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pSK09BX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pnm4Hik.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7YenvRP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kbncvw1.jpg

Here is a CLOSE shot at 400mm close to the closer limit of focus

jacked up the aperture and its razor sharp

http://i.imgur.com/DUYFhp7.jpg

a B29 that flew over. as you can see it is not "clean" fuzzy edges. it is simply not in "focus" or something

took several shots all the same

http://i.imgur.com/aMBP2bz.jpg

Here is a stabilized shot I took today (resting on the car's roof no vibrations etc..) at 300mm

http://i.imgur.com/Cdapb3q.jpg

Here is the same shot with my older 100-300 L

http://i.imgur.com/Goz3KPT.jpg

also at 300mm

Note I am shocked how much better the COLOR is on the 100-400 L over the 100-300 L

but as you can see the 100-300 L is quite a bit sharper while the 100-400 L shot just seems out of focus.

Even my cheap little casio pisser takes a sharper shot (more compression artifacts and horrible color but more "sharp edges" than the 100-400 L

http://i.imgur.com/jLpbSdP.jpg


another comparison here is the meter box at defaults
http://i.imgur.com/7YenvRP.jpg

and with aperture cranked up
http://i.imgur.com/PsQ0Qnx.jpg

simply a huge difference. you can actually read the label.

suggestions?

Again............"Your posted images must have been "saved for the web"... all the EXIF data is stripped off them. If it were there, we could look at it and check things like this ourselves."

 

It still looks like your technique.  IE, camera shake because of ..... ?

EB
EOS 1D, EOS 1D MK IIn, EOS 1D MK III, EOS 1Ds MK III, EOS 1D MK IV and EOS 1DX and many lenses.

The 100-400mm and its smallerr brother are not the sharpest lenses made.  But they can produce nice results if you use them correctly.

This photo was cropped heavily in PS,  shot at f5.6, 1/60 at the 400mm side.  It is typical.  So if you are not getting this type of result and you are certain it is not you, have the lens looked at by Canon service.

 

IMG_1514.jpg

 

EB
EOS 1D, EOS 1D MK IIn, EOS 1D MK III, EOS 1Ds MK III, EOS 1D MK IV and EOS 1DX and many lenses.

Crap.. wonder what that will cost 😞

yeah even my 75-300 $50 lens is getting sharper results at distance.

at close range the pics are sharp as crap. remember my comparison is my old XTI with cheap 75-300. it might not be "sharp" compared to other lenses in its class but I would think a $1500 lens should be sharper than my $50 lens right??

I would be quite happy to get the results you get 🙂

How about showing the EXIF?  Why not?

EB
EOS 1D, EOS 1D MK IIn, EOS 1D MK III, EOS 1Ds MK III, EOS 1D MK IV and EOS 1DX and many lenses.

First, I do see some softness in your sample images, but it's only noticeable when the images are high magnified and it's hard to say why it's occuring.

 

Something I noticed in a couple of your images is flare at the bottom of the image frame. Are you using the lens hood? Is there a filter on the lens? Is it possible your camera has a light leak (failing light seals around the mirror, for example)? When working on a tripod and not with your eye to the viewfinder, are you covering the eyepiece? These things all might have some effect on auto focus precision, in some instances.

 

Other stuff... some of it repititious, I'm afraid:

 

1. You'd be better off starting your own, separate thread discussing 100-400mm lens focus, instead of continuing to tag onto a thread about the 400/5.6L. Other people who might be helpful may be missing your questions, because by adding them to someone else's post here, your concerns are ending up buried several pages into a thread about a çompletely different lens.

 

2. We don't know you or your skill level or how careful your techniques. If your images had the EXIF data attached, it would help because we could look at that and might see something causing the problems. Very often camera or lens "flaws" come down to somthing the photographer is doing. If you "save for the web" when you make your images, that will strip off EXIF data and is usually the reason it's missing. Instead, simply "save" the image. Some image hosting sites or the softwares used to upload to them also might strip off EXIF (but they also might offer a means of preventing this).

 

For example, the B29 image (my dad flew one of those)... what shutter speed? That's a difficult subject, going past you at 160 MPH or faster, as well as somewhat distant... The 5DII isn't the greatest camera at tracking moving subjects, but what focus mode were you in? AI Servo? One Shot? What focus points were you using? All points/auto select? Single point? If single, which one?

 

3. Really critical focus tests should be done on a tripod, with a good target set perfectly parallel to the camera sensor plane. The target can be as simple as a weathered fence, brick wall or newspaper page taped to a wall.

 

4. HAVE YOU TRIED MFA? With 5DII camera you can dial in some Micro Focus Adjustment to calibrate fine tune focus accuracy of this particular lens on your particular camera. To do so, the target should be about 25X to 50X the focal length being tested. So 100mm x 25 / 25 (to convert to inches) gives about 100 inches or roughly 8 feet minimum (but at least the lens' minimum focus distance away). If testing 400mm focal length, the minimum distance for testing needs to be about 32 feet.

 

When testing a zoom and setting MFA to calibrate it, 5DII's verions of MFA only allows for a single adjusment. This may be a problem with a zoom, if the lens is focusing significantly differently at different focal length settings. If it's only slightly different, just use an average. Or make an adjustment that favors the focal length you tend to use most.

 

Canon user manual for 5DII has more detail on how to calibrate your lens yourself, using MFA. This is a manual adjustment procedure. If you want, there are softwares available that can automate the process... one of these is Reikan FoCal (http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/). You'll have to decide if it's worth the cost.

 

5. When doing focus tests on it's very important to eliminate all other possible variables as much as possible... to try to rule out anything else that can effect image sharpness, so that you are truly testing focus alone.

 

Use a remote release or the self-timer, so you aren't touching the camera at the moment the shutter is released.

 

In some shutter speeds (1/30 and slower), use Mirror Lockup so there is no possibility of internal camera vibrations. (When shooting, you can use Live VIew instead, for the same effect as MLU... However Live View uses a separate method of focusing, so would not show you the accuracy of the primary focus system, as seen in the viewfinder.)

 

If using the 100-400mm on a tripod, you MUST TURN OFF IS at the switch. (It is one of several Canon IS lenses that do not "self-detect" when on a tripod and turn IS off themselves. As a result, when there is no movement at all, IS in this particular lens (and the EF 28-135 IS, EF 300/4 IS and a couple other lenses) can CAUSE movement, which will appear as blur in images.

 

Good light, good subject contrast for the AF to lock onto are important, too. You don't want to use too high an iSO, since that will also cost some image resolution that might be mistaken for a lens problem

 

Set your 5DII to One Shot and only use the center AF point.

 

6. We've asked some questions which you don't appear to have answered and that have bearing on lens sharpness and focus. For example... DO YOU HAVE A FILTER ON THE 100-400mm? If so, remove it and redo your tests. This lens doesn't like filters! Even good filters on a 100-400mm seem to have some effect on image sharpness. I don't know why this occurs, but many 100-400L users have been very pleasantly surprised how good and sharp their lens suddenly became... after they removed a "protection" filter from it!  Filters effect all lenses to some extent... maybe very little, maybe a lot under certain circumstances... but the 100-400mm in particular for some reason just seems to be very sensitive to adding any filter.

 

7. Almost all lenses are sharper stopped down a bit from their max aperture. HOWEVER, f22 you say you are using is a bit of overkill, and actually starts getting into an optical effect called "diffraction", that reduces fine detail and softens images. The full frame, 21MP 5DII is "diffraction limited" at f10 (uncropped 8x12 print of image). f11 it hardly shows up... f16 is generally okay, too... but much beyond that you start to see more fine detail lost to diffraction. The larger the image is viewed, the more noticeable it becomes (8x10/8x12 is generally used as a standard, to allow apples to apples comparison). Read more about diffraction here: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm 

 

Beware of being too overly critical. Looking at a 21MP image at 100% on most modern computer monitors is equivalent ot making a five foot wide print and then viewing it from only 18 inches away. OF COURSE it will look bad!

 

Looking at your images... yes they appear a bit soft. Backed off to the equivalent of a 13x19" or 16x24" print, they actually look pretty good. So the softness is only slight and it may be possible to improve with MFA.

 

If CAREFUL testing shows the lens consisitently focuses differently with different focal lengths and/or with closer or more distant subjects, which MFA cannot correct, especially if it's an older lens or was bought used, it may have some wear and tear, need to be sent in for service and calibration.

 

We're trying to help... and the sample images help use help you. But lacking EXIF data on the images and not seeing any answers to some of the questions we've sent back to you, we can only do so much.

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 

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