Help with focus: Canon EOS R with EF 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II and adapter ring

[cdisimone]

I had been using the EOS 5D Mark II for quite sometime until I recently bought the Canon EOS R. Today I tried my EF 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II for the first time with the EOS R. Admittedly, this is my most underutilized lens so I don't have a lot of shots to compare to, but I got some seriously disappointing results today when just shooting objects in my yard. I had a lot of trouble focusing using the center focus point on the smallest setting. Maybe I am doing something wrong... looking for some guidance.

I have had tack sharp images with the other EF lenses I have tried with the EOS R so I'm hoping it is something I am doing... and that there is nothing wrong with the lens. My test shots were all handheld but on a pretty fast shutter speed, wide open and zoomed in at 200mm, and I was sitting and leaning my back against a wall so I should have been pretty still as well. I used single shot focus in the center and just snapped the photo.. no recomposing, no al servo, no choosing alternate focus points. Just center the subject and shoot. 

Can anyone tell me what is going wrong here? I didn't get one clear shot of the squirrel, or the bird.

Photo 1 (squirrel): https://flic.kr/p/2iNDbwc

Photo 1 Focus Point: https://flic.kr/p/2iNEVdP

Photo 2 (bird): https://flic.kr/p/2iNEUEV

Photo 2 Focus Point: https://flic.kr/p/2iNEVdo

If there's a better way to share photos here or if it's better to load right into this window, please let me know. I'm new here!

Thanks!

[Waddizzle]

"It may need micro adjustment but it is focusing. The only other thing is you missed focus.".  

Mirrorless cameras do not have or even need AFMA.  AFMA corrects the AF Sensor to match the Image Sensor.  In.a mirrorless body, the AF Sensor and Image Sensor are one and the same.

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I think using Spot AF is and avenue for potential AF problems, too.  I am not familiar with exactly how it works on a mirrorless camera.  But, it is most likely an improvement over DSLRs.

Most DSLRs can only Spot AF with the center AF point, and is not uncommon for the "center" AF point on the AF sensor to not be in perfect alignment with the "center" AF point in the viewfinder.  The actual AF point may be on the edge of the AF display point in the viewfinder. 

In other words, the Spot AF point is not always centered in the AF point displayed in the viewfinder, or even in the display you may see in post.  The critters are centered inside of the AF point display, but that does not mean they are aligned with the "spot" of the AF point.  These subjects are too small for Spot AF..

Using the confventional AF mode does mean a bigger AF point, but you do have better odds of focusing on more distant objects, most especially when the distant object does not ciomplete fill the AF point display. 

[Waddizzle]

Check the lens switches.  They can throw off focus, too.  You do not want to use the full range if you are focusing on something more than 10 feet away. 

[cdisimone]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

Have you looked at the AF Point(s) in Canon's DPP software?  It may give a tighter AF display in Spot AF Focus mode.

Check the lens settings, especially the focus distance setting and the IS Tracking Mode setting.

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I don't have Canon's DPP software on my computer but I can install it and try. I can see the spot on the camera preview, and I also have a Lightroom Plugin that shows the spot (uploaded that to flickr in original post). 

I had the lens on the further focusing distance, IS on, Mode 1.

[cdisimone]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

I think the problem here is the squirrel is so small.  Let's set up a test.  Do the very same settings and distance only put a larger subject in the shot.  A teddy bear for example. Try to keep everything the same except for the subject.  Also try different apertures to see which work best. I prefer to fix ISO. I don't use or like auto ISO.  I also prefer Av over Tv almost all the time.

Use One shot and just the center focus point for this test.  You can use jpg for this too.  Most of the time a jpg will be sharper right out of the camera than Raw.

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I actually did just that prior to seeing your post! I stuck a stuffed animal in the pot. I believe I had it on manual settings this time for those shots, and I did play around with using focus points in the center but also off to the sides. I also walked up closer and tried the shot at 100mm and closer still at 70mm, as well as some different apertures from the far distance. For the original far shot, I didn't pull out my tripod but I did rest the camera on a table and used it on timer so I could make sure there was no camera shake.

I don't have time to upload the shots right now but I will later and see what happened. Is flickr the preferred way of sharing photos here or something else?

[cdisimone]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

Using the confventional AF mode does mean a bigger AF point, but you do have better odds of focusing on more distant objects, most especially when the distant object does not ciomplete fill the AF point display. 

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Can you explain what you mean by "conventional AF mode"? 

[Waddizzle]

You can upload files directly to the forum, but there is 5MP limit.  In practice, the working limit is more like 4.5MP, probably because of some sort of overhead.

I strongly suggest that you use a "normal" point, instead of whatever type of Spot AF the EOS R uses.  Again check your lens switches, most especially the distance switch.  It can make a world of difference.

[Waddizzle]

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@cdisimone wrote:

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@Waddizzle wrote:

Using the confventional AF mode does mean a bigger AF point, but you do have better odds of focusing on more distant objects, most especially when the distant object does not ciomplete fill the AF point display. 

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Can you explain what you mean by "conventional AF mode"? 

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"I had a lot of trouble focusing using the center focus point on the smallest setting."

I have no idea what "smallest setting" means, either.  Doesn't your 5D have Spot AF in the center AF point?  I am saying do not use whatever equivalent to Spot AF in a DSLR that the EOS R uses.  

Spot AF does not work well with small or distant subjects, mainly because the focus spot is not always where you might think it is.  The AF point display in the viewfinder should be regarded as an approximation of where the AF points are located.

[cdisimone]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

I have no idea what "smallest setting" means, either.  Doesn't your 5D have Spot AF in the center AF point?  I am saying do not use whatever equivalent to Spot AF in a DSLR that the EOS R uses.  

Spot AF does not work well with small or distant subjects, mainly because the focus spot is not always where you might think it is.  The AF point display in the viewfinder should be regarded as an approximation of where the AF points are located.

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Yes, both of those cameras have Spot AF and it mainly works the same way. On the EOS R it's called 1-point AF, and unlike the 5D where you can see the black outline of all the available AF points in the viewfinder, and the one you want turns red, on the EOS R, you don't see those black outlines, and you can move the focus point anywhere on the entire screen rather than being limited to those set number of focus points like on the 5D.

What I meant by "smallest setting" is that you can change the size of the focus point square in the 1-point AF mode on the EOS from "normal" to "small" and I had it on small. The size of the box is smaller allowing for a more precise focus point. Whether or not it's more accurate on a mirrorless compared with a DLSR, I do not know... But it would be good to know how accurate it really is!

Thinking of the spot AF as an approximation helps me understand what might be happening but I always thought the whole purpose of spot AF was so that you could pinpoint exactly where you want to focus. So in my situation, (not that I am always taking pictures of faraway squirrels in the backyard but... for learning purposes...) if you wouldn't use spot AF, would you just use manual focus instead? I don't know that I'd be able to see in the viewfinder if something is in focus that small and far away. 

[cdisimone]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

I strongly suggest that you use a "normal" point, instead of whatever type of Spot AF the EOS R uses.  Again check your lens switches, most especially the distance switch.  It can make a world of difference.

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Just read this again... Maybe there is confusion on my part between "normal" AF point and "spot" AF point. I am using them interchangeably and maybe they aren't, but on both of my cameras, to my knowledge, there is no difference between a "normal" AF point and a "spot" AF point (only "spot" metering point but that's exposure and we're not talking about that!)

There is no way to toggle between using a single "normal" focus point (which looks like a square) to using something that looks like a "spot".. they're all squares and what it sounds like you're referring to as "normal" AF.

Maybe I should consult the manual!

[cdisimone]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

I strongly suggest that you use a "normal" point, instead of whatever type of Spot AF the EOS R uses.  Again check your lens switches, most especially the distance switch.  It can make a world of difference.

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OK so my mistake, I never knew spot AF was a separate thing because neither of my 2 cameras have it (5D Mark ii and EOS R). I googled and see that the Mark iii has that, and it's like a spot within the the center focus point. I don't have that. When I was saying spot AF, I meant "single point" AF. 

Also, I think I already replied to this somewhere else, but the switches were on the 2.8m-infinity setting, IS On, Mode 1. I think that's what I would want in this situation.

Thanks for your feedback.