DPP How to export TIFF files with embedded color profile

[in4m8n]

Hi folks,

Several months ago I discovered I liked the results of saving a Canon CR3 RAW image as an 8 BIt TIFF and then importing into Lightroom for editing. When I did, the color profile would be shown as EMBEDDED.

Been a few motnhs, and just tried again and now the imported LR TIFF shows a color profile as COLOR.

I don't think I changed anything but something did. How to I export from DPP so that the color profile is EMBEDDED?

Hope this all makes sense. Thanks.

[johnrmoyer]

Canon DPP software embeds a color profile in the TIFF. I do not use any Adobe products and cannot help with those.

I suggest that if one is planning to do further editing in another program, it is best to export a 16 bit TIFF instead of an 8 bit TIFF.

For example:

[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileCMMType              : Unknown (UCCM)
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileVersion              : 2.4.0
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileClass                : Display Device Profile
[ICC_Profile:Image] ColorSpaceData              : RGB
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileConnectionSpace      : XYZ
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileFileSignature        : acsp
[ICC_Profile:Image] PrimaryPlatform             : Microsoft Corporation
[ICC_Profile:Image] CMMFlags                    : Not Embedded, Independent
[ICC_Profile:Image] DeviceManufacturer          : Canon, Inc. (Canon Development Americas, Inc.)
[ICC_Profile:Image] DeviceModel                 : Z009
[ICC_Profile:Image] DeviceAttributes            : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
[ICC_Profile:Image] RenderingIntent             : Perceptual
[ICC_Profile:Image] ConnectionSpaceIlluminant   : 0.9642 1 0.82491
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileCreator              : Canon, Inc. (Canon Development Americas, Inc.)
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileID                   : 0
[ICC_Profile:Image] RedTRC                      : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[ICC_Profile:Image] GreenTRC                    : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[ICC_Profile:Image] BlueTRC                     : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[ICC_Profile:Image] RedMatrixColumn             : 0.43604 0.22244 0.0139
[ICC_Profile:Image] GreenMatrixColumn           : 0.3851 0.71695 0.09708
[ICC_Profile:Image] BlueMatrixColumn            : 0.14307 0.06062 0.71393
[ICC_Profile:Image] ChromaticAdaptation         : 1.04784 0.02289 -0.05019 0.02954 0.99051 -0.01706 -0.00923 0.01508 0.75172
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileCopyright            : Copyright (c) 2003, Canon Inc.  All rights reserved.
[ICC_Profile:Image] MediaWhitePoint             : 0.9642 1 0.82491
[ICC_Profile:Image] Technology                  : Cathode Ray Tube Display
[ICC_Profile:Image] ProfileDescription          : sRGB v1.31 (Canon)
[ICC_Profile:Time] ProfileDateTime              : 2003:04:04 00:00:00
[ICC_Profile:Camera] DeviceMfgDesc              : Canon Inc.
[ICC_Profile:Camera] DeviceModelDesc            : sRGB v1.31 (Canon)

[in4m8n]

Thats my question. DPP is NOT embedding a profile in an 8 bit OR 16 bit tiff. Why not? It used to.

Thx.

[johnrmoyer]

---

@in4m8n wrote:

Thats my question. DPP is NOT embedding a profile in an 8 bit OR 16 bit tiff. Why not? It used to.

Thx.

---

When I save a 16 bit TIFF from DPP, there is certainly an ICC profile in the file.

exiftool -icc_profile -b -w icc IMG_0440c.TIF 
Warning: Bad length ICC_Profile (length 3140) - IMG_0440c.TIF
    1 output files created
exiftool IMG_0440c.icc
ExifTool Version Number         : 12.87
File Name                       : IMG_0440c.icc
Directory                       : .
File Size                       : 3.1 kB
File Modification Date/Time     : 2024:06:20 08:17:07-05:00
File Access Date/Time           : 2024:06:20 08:17:07-05:00
File Inode Change Date/Time     : 2024:06:20 08:17:07-05:00
File Permissions                : -rw-r--r--
File Type                       : ICC
File Type Extension             : icc
MIME Type                       : application/vnd.iccprofile
Profile CMM Type                : Unknown (UCCM)
Profile Version                 : 2.4.0
Profile Class                   : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data                : RGB
Profile Connection Space        : XYZ
Profile Date Time               : 2003:04:04 00:00:00
Profile File Signature          : acsp
Primary Platform                : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags                       : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer             : Canon, Inc. (Canon Development Americas, Inc.)
Device Model                    : Z009
Device Attributes               : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent                : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant     : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator                 : Canon, Inc. (Canon Development Americas, Inc.)
Profile ID                      : 0
Red Tone Reproduction Curve     : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve   : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve    : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Red Matrix Column               : 0.43604 0.22244 0.0139
Green Matrix Column             : 0.3851 0.71695 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column              : 0.14307 0.06062 0.71393
Chromatic Adaptation            : 1.04784 0.02289 -0.05019 0.02954 0.99051 -0.01706 -0.00923 0.01508 0.75172
Profile Copyright               : Copyright (c) 2003, Canon Inc.  All rights reserved.
Device Mfg Desc                 : Canon Inc.
Device Model Desc               : sRGB v1.31 (Canon)
Media White Point               : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Technology                      : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Profile Description             : sRGB v1.31 (Canon)

Maybe the software you are using is confused by the "bad length" warning.

If I save a 16 bit TIFF with AdobeRGB from DPP, then there is a different ICC profile than when I save sRGB,

exiftool -icc_profile -b -w icc IMG_0440aRGB.TIF
Warning: Bad length ICC_Profile (length 560) - IMG_0440aRGB.TIF
    1 output files created
exiftool IMG_0440aRGB.icc      
ExifTool Version Number         : 12.87
File Name                       : IMG_0440aRGB.icc
Directory                       : .
File Size                       : 561 bytes
File Modification Date/Time     : 2024:06:20 08:23:01-05:00
File Access Date/Time           : 2024:06:20 08:23:01-05:00
File Inode Change Date/Time     : 2024:06:20 08:23:01-05:00
File Permissions                : -rw-r--r--
File Type                       : ICC
File Type Extension             : icc
MIME Type                       : application/vnd.iccprofile
Profile CMM Type                : Adobe Systems Inc.
Profile Version                 : 2.1.0
Profile Class                   : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data                : RGB
Profile Connection Space        : XYZ
Profile Date Time               : 2000:08:11 19:51:59
Profile File Signature          : acsp
Primary Platform                : Apple Computer Inc.
CMM Flags                       : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer             : none
Device Model                    : 
Device Attributes               : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent                : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant     : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator                 : Adobe Systems Inc.
Profile ID                      : 0
Profile Copyright               : Copyright 2000 Adobe Systems Incorporated
Profile Description             : Adobe RGB (1998)
Media White Point               : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point               : 0 0 0
Red Tone Reproduction Curve     : (Binary data 14 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve   : (Binary data 14 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve    : (Binary data 14 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Red Matrix Column               : 0.60974 0.31111 0.01947
Green Matrix Column             : 0.20528 0.62567 0.06087
Blue Matrix Column              : 0.14919 0.06322 0.74457

[in4m8n]

OK, may have figured it out.

When I exported from DPP and imported into Lightroom 6 it showed as a profile EMBEDDED and allowed proper use of Temp and Tint. When I export identically from DPP and import into Lightroom Classic! it shows the profile as COLOR and the temp and tint are a percentage rather than temperature and tint. Does not work as well. Maybe it is the "bad length".

I am thinking this must be an Adobe issue and did not realize that is the bigger variable. Ashame. Still works, but limits the usefulleness just a notch.

Thanks,

[johnrmoyer]

It has been many years since I used any Adobe software. I sometimes use gimp and gimp asks me whether or not to use the embedded color profile.

[p4pictures · Accepted solution]

The issue here is that different Lightroom versions use different Process versions depending on the age. Different process versions provide different functions and settings.

I'm using the latest Lightroom Classic, and at the end of the right hand sidebar is the Calibration panel, where I can choose the current latest process version or an older one. I selected a .TIFF that was in my library already and changed the Process version. Then I checked what was shown for the profile in the basic panel. For process version 1, 2, or 3 the profile was embedded, for process version 4, 5 or 6 the profile was Color. 

It is most certainly the case that your recent Lightroom Classic and Lightroom 6 use different process versions and this accounts for the different behaviour. 

[in4m8n]

Thanks dso much for checking that. Confirms what I was thinking. If easy for you to see, in current COLOR profile are your WB sliders normal or limited? That I think is the biggest limitation. And a shame as the DPP demosaicing is so **bleep** good!

I'll try applying previous process versions.

MUCH appreciated.

[p4pictures]

For all process versions the TIFF only has percentage slides for temp and tint.

This is because the TIFF is a processed file, so DPP processed the RAW file and applied your chosen white balance or what you decided in DPP. This is then "baked in" to the TIFF, therefore the temp and tint sliders are no longer the same as for an actual .CR2 or .CR3 as that has not had the white balanced processed.

As an extreme example in DPP if I turn the white balance to Kelvin and select the max 10,000K the result is a warm toned image when the TIFF is saved. So in Lightroom it's no longer adjusting the temperature, but the percentage of blue / amber when you move the slider.

[johnrmoyer]

https://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/How_to_extract_and_examine_ICC_profiles