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Some proof of 600-series speedlites and cellular interference causing link issues?

rs-eos
Elite

I stopped by a local photo studio today to test out my 600-series speedlites (first gen).    Wanted to see if they would drop links before working on a project there.

Interestingly, the owner mentioned before I started testing, that cell reception in the back area (studio) was quite bad.

I set up a total of six flashes on three stands (two with single flashes and one with my Foursquare to connect four together).   I was controlling the flashes via an ST-E3-RT (1st gen as well) on my EOS 5D IV.   I put all into the same group (A), and all were in manual mode (M).  Power set to 1/128.

Took several images and didn't experience any link drops.

I also turned off the transmitter several times throughout the test, then back on.  Within a couple seconds, all flashes had their links re-enabled.

I do wish I had tried other power settings, but I cannot imagine that having anything to do with the link drops.  When I did some work in my backyard a couple months back, I was using mostly 1/32, but I think also dropped to 1/64 at one point.

While this is nowhere near an exhaustive test by any means, it's kinda pointing more and more to cellular interference being the cause.

--
Ricky

Camera: EOS 5D IV, EF 50mm f/1.2L, EF 135mm f/2L
Lighting: Profoto Lights & Modifiers
14 REPLIES 14

Anonymous
Not applicable

Has anyone turned off their cellphone (or put in airplane mode) while the flashes are experiencing the dropped link issue to see if this is the problem? I've been reading through these posts on the dropped link issue, but I haven't seen anyone trying this with the cellphone.

 

Tried with my phone off, no change. “Link Drop”

In the USA cell bands are quite removed from 2.4 Gigs

wq9nsc
Elite
Elite

Canon uses the 2.4 Ghz band for their wireless flash system, the nearest cellular ranges are at 2.3 and 2.5 Ghz and those aren't in heavy/common use in the U.S.

But 2.4 Ghz is very heavily used for a variety of purposes including the most popular WiFi range, security systems, baby and other monitors, remote sensing (temperature, general weather, etc.).  And the fastest growing and most common interfering device in this range is the ubiquitous Bluetooth system. So the Canon wireless flash system is in a VERY busy neighborhood.

Link loss/link low reliability can occur both from direct interference on exactly the same frequency (which is why most devices can automatically or manually channel hop to find a suitable spot) AND from general loss of device sensitivity due to a noisy RF environment.  I suspect the latter is the problem with Canon devices and they aren't robust against a high level RF environment; this can occur due to poor quality on the receiving side and minimal power/poor antenna on the transmitting side.

Nothing is fully immune to this sort of interference but devices that transmit at the allowed limit with an efficient radiator combined with receivers that have a high dynamic range and steep rejection of just off frequency interference will be most reliable in terms of maintaining a link and minimizing packet errors.

A spectrum analyzer isn't an instrument photographers carry around but it will tell the tale of interfering signatures in an RF environment 🙂  I have used my Tektronix 7854 scope with 7L12 spectrum analyzer plug in for a lot of applications but so far NOT for finding flash interference.  But if you look at the 2.4 Ghz range in a typical public spot, the analyzer is going to show a lot of activity. 

And although MOST of the "garbage" from power supplies stays below the 2.4 Ghz range, some devices are so noisy that these unintentional radiators create problems.  The power supply in some LED bulbs is so noisy that using one in a garage door opener will interrupt communications with the controller (400 Mhz range for these devices) preventing the car remote from closing the door while the light is on after exiting the garage.  The power supplies used with home entertainment devices, digital devices, and home appliances are often far worse, particularly replacement units that don't even pretend to meet U.S./EU RFI regulations.

Rodger

NZ1W3468.JPG

EOS 1DX M3, 1DX M2, 1DX, 5DS R, M6 Mark II, 1D M2, EOS 650 (film), many lenses, XF400 video

As a ham radio operator (W1HD) I do in fact own a spectrum analyzer and one of these days I'll bring it to the photography arena at 2.4G.  

Funny you mention antenna... in a crowded neighborhood, what do you think about opening up the flash and adding a bit of wire to the internal antenna?  Has anybody opened up one of these Canon flashes to see what the antenna inside looks like?  I'm guessing it's just a bit of a trace on a pc board.  

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