PRO-100 True B&W Prints

[blumb]

Hello,

I just received my PRO-100 printer and I am trying to print a "true" black and white print. The two test prints I have created have a color cast to them and I cannot get rid of it.

I received a test print from Canon of the same image printed using the Canon PRO-1. It is a truly stunning print. The PRO-1 is currently out of my price range, hopefully that will change in the future, but for now I have the PRO-100. I understand the differences between DYE and Pigment but the issue isn't there. The issue seems to be that I just cannot turn off color from being introduced onto the final print.

The image was multiple color raw files combined into an HDR image, then converted to B&W. I have tried using LR4 to print the image with color correction set to none on the printer driver, and have also tried using the "Black and white" button within the Canon PRO-100 print dialog.

Questions are:

Is the PRO-100 Capable of utilizing just the black, grey, and light grey inks to produce a "Black and White" Print?

If it is, how is this accomplished?

My older Pixma Pro9000 printed just using the black cartridge; it at least printed a black and white print without any color cast.

Thank you.

[grapegeek]

I've had this printer now for about 9 months. Love the color prints! If you want it for B&W I would look elsewhere. I'm actually thinking about getting a cheap epson printer and using an MIS greyscale ink set just for BW. I have never had a truly neutral print from this printer (Believe me I've tried all the above on several different papers) It gets real close and under artificial lighting they look OK, but as soon as I put it in sunlight, there comes the green tinge...

[PeterD]

I have a B&W conversion done with Nik Silver FX which is giving me simillar printing problems.

In this case certain small areas of the image print with a yellow highlight which appears mainly after the print made on Caonon Pro Platinum paper has cured for a few days.

This problem persists with this file even after a greyscale conversion is completed and then the resulting Dot Gain colour space is convrted back to Adobe RGB 1998 for printing using the 16 bit driver.

When B&W converted with Adobe CS5 using an adjustment layer B&W conversion the problem practically disappers even without the Grey Scale conversion step.

I've noticed the same problem with some other Nik Silver FX conversions but to a lesser extent.

I mean to have a Photoshop expert to have a look at the troublesome areas of the file to see if he can throw more light on the problem.

[Cyclopic]

I made two prints from the same B+W image in PS.

1st:: PS printer manages colour, Pro 100 B+W boxs checked, colour "auto" = greenish tint

2nd: PS managed colour, Pro 100 B+W unchecked, Colour management "manual", driver matching "none" = identical result, greenish tint

I despair!

[grapegeek]

I've fiddled with this since I got this printer and have never gotten true B/W prints but really close. What I've found is that it's really paper dependent. Actually the best paper for me was the cheap glossy Costco professional photo paper. A tad sepia but way better than the greenish tint I was getting on canon papers

[ebiggs1]

I repeat, ...

"As to B&W printing, it looks like the paper choice has a good deal to do with the results. And it looks like sRGB and Adobe RGB has a great deal to do with the printing, too. Try everything as what works for some may not work for you or vice versa."

Call Red River Paper and ask them for their best options for B&W printing.

[grapegeek]

I know I've dredged up an old thread, but I have to say I never really sat down and try to get this **bleep** printer to print really good BW photos. I spent all day yesterday finally going through some threads and I tried two things that made a huge difference. Moving everything to Adobe RGB and also in the printer dialog, under the Main tab and then Color/Intensity set to Manual and then set Matching to "None". That has made a huge difference in both my BW and color pictures. I have a calibrated monitor and on my old Epson I didn't have these issues, but finally I think I have it all nailed down... gawd it's been a long time battling with this printer!!!!

[PeterD]

Thank you Grapegeek for the update on your efforts particularly your findings regarding the printer dialog settings.

I've managed to get satisfactory B&W printing results when using the 16 bit printer driver and printing files that have had all colour information removed.(Grayscaled) then converted to Adobe1998 profile.

I print using Canon Studio Print Pro and never use the specifically monochrome printing facility of this software. The Pattern Print feature is particularly useful where small variations to contrast and color are crtitical to achieving the end result especially on Art papers where a generic profile isn't available or where grayscale conversion isn't practical.

I'm particulary impressed with the results I can get on art papers where a colour or split tone watercolour look is required and also with the shadow details revealed with the likes of Canon's Pro Platinum paper. I wasn't not so impressed with a mysterious yellow tint in some highlights around shaded folliage in a couple of B&W prints files that I was never able to resolve.

I guess if you print a lot of B&W (which I dont) then you should consider the PRO 1 or perhaps the PRO 10 printer for your needs.

[grapegeek]

I also have to point out that this is heavily paper dependent. The worst results I got were on Canon Matte paper and the best were on the Pro Luster paper. Pro Glossy wasn't too bad either. I have only tried on 3rd party paper with decent results too and that was Red River.

I thought it was just me and trying to nail down a BW process that worked, but I remember my old Epson 2200 and it was much easier with that printer but it finally gave out... I do think for  $500 printer, this should be a non-issue in this day and age. But, I am getting more and more into BW printing so I might have to invest in a  printer that really does a good job...

[dcsimages]

Sorry for revivng this really old thread, but I'd been pulling out what hair I have left trying to match the 13x19 Canon Semi-gloss that I've been getting for free with ink orders to the Red River Arctic Polar Satin that I usually use with the Pixma Pro-100.

What I've discovered, and should have checked first, is that the Canon paper exhibits a great deal of metamerism.

Under the halogen spot lights in my office, the type most people would use to highlight art work on their walls, the Red River paper is dead neutral, but the Canon paper is distinctly reddish.

Take the prints outside into direct sunlight or open shade and the Red River prints and Canon prints both appeaar neutral.

So, the upshot is, for me anyway, is to not use the Canon paper for black and white.

There's a very slight shift in color images as well, but it's not objectionable.

[PeterD]

Thanks "dcsimages" for that addition to the old thread on this issue.

I use Canon papers almost exclusively and view the finished print in sunlight or under my Solux MR16 True Daylight bulb which is fitted to a desk lamp right adjacent my printer.

Your comment regarding the response of Canon papers in general to halogen spots is roughly what I would expect given the spectrum of this light source and it will be interesting to see how papers from various manufacturers respond to the LED lamps which are replacing incandescent light sources.

The old halogen light sources (usually were GU10 lamps) are gone from my house so I can't test them anymore as all our main lighting has been converted to LED types. The "warm white" LED lamps I have produce an orange cast noticeable in any green folliage part of a print on Canon Pro Platinum paper illuminated by them compared to my Solux MR16 bulb so I dare say this problem will continue and may also effect papers from other manufacturers.

A blank sheet of HP Premium Plus and a blank sheet of Canon Pro Platinum both take on a more yellowish tone under a warm white or cool white  LED light compared to viewing them under the Solux lamp and the HP paper is nowhere near as pure white as the Pro Platinum paper when viewed under the Solux MR16 Daylight lamp ie. they are not a metameric match even under a nearly ideal tungsten lamp with a relatively smooth emmitance curve.