Why can't Canon produce a competitive full frame sensor?

[Bazsl]

Does anyone have an idea why Canon cannot produce a competitive full frame sensor? Seriously. It has been five and a half years since the Nikon D800 was introduced and over six years since the Sony A7R was introduced and Canon has yet to produce a camera that is competitive with either. Forget about the Nikon D850 and the Sony A7R III. I am sure I will not live long enough to see Canon produce a full frame camera that competes with Nikon's or Sony's current models.

I can see three possible problems.

1) Lack of engineering talent. (This seems unlikely.)

2) Unwillingness to license the IP they need from Sony.

3) Inability to manufacture a competitive sensor.

While 2 is possible it does not make sense to me. Canon states publicly that they manufacture their own sensors using their own foundry equipment. Why Canon promotes this is beyond me since it is a feature with no benefit whatever. No one cares who manufactures Canon's sensors. Customers only care about the sensor's performance. However, I suspose 3 is possible that someone inside Canon is opposed to using and outside foundry, as Nikon did with the D850 sensor, and this is inhibiting Canon's ability to compete.

I would really like to know exactly what is preventing Canon from producing a competitive sensor because I am so frustrated that I am beginning to dream about some way to justify the enormous cost of jumping from Canon to Nikon. Any thoughts?

[ebiggs1]

Never say never, Robert!  

And.....have a wonderful New Year 2018.  Don't forget to chaneg the date in your cameras!

[RobertTheFat]

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ebiggs1 wrote:

Never say never, Robert!  

And.....have a wonderful New Year 2018.  Don't forget to change the date in your cameras!

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Happy New Year to you too, Ernie!

But why should I have to change the date? I just checked my 5D3 and my wife's 7D2, and they both show the correct date and time. I sometimes synchronize my cameras (using EOSU) when I'm going on a shoot with more than one, but otherwise I don't have to touch the date/time settings except when we go on or off of DST.

[ebiggs1]

"But why should I have to change the date?"

 The date/time does but Robert the copyright date does not update.   

[RobertTheFat]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"But why should I have to change the date?"

 The date/time does but Robert the copyright date does not update.   

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Nice recovery, Ernie!    But I don't think the copyright date is intended to update. Don't you want it to reflect the date the work was created?

I suppose you make a good point, though. I've never included the date in my copyright notices. I guess I assumed that the presence of the date in the Exif info would sufficie.

One thing I have tried to include is the ubiquitous "circled c" character. But unless there's been a very recent firmware change, I've yet to encounter a Canon camera that would accept it. Are you listening, Canon?

[Danny]

Hi, Bob!

The EOS-1D X Mark II can accept the circle-C (©) copyright symbol via a firmware update, as can the EOS 5D Mark IV. This is done by inputting IPTC metadata directly into each image file as it's taken by the photographer.

We hope this helps!

[ebiggs1]

Hi Danny,

Us poor users that just have a 1Dx and 1D Mk IV don't have the © symbol.  We still have to use (c).  I guess I will have to go buy a 1Dx Mk II now!  I may have to stop off at the attorney's office first to see how much the divorce will cost though.

[ebiggs1]

You know while we are on this FF sensor discussion, the Nikon model that I am/was most interested in will really shock the OP as its specs aren't even clsoe to what is considered great today.  It is the Nikon Df. 

 And if Canon ever decided to make a retro of the F1n, oh boy, I  could not resist that.  

[ebiggs1]

Bob from Bean Town,

The copyright date is my normal practice.  I never thought anyone else did not do that. Just assumed,ed you knew what I meant?  I have gone several days into the new year and had last years date on the copyright.  That date establishes when the copyright went into effect.

[Bazsl]

Remembering that the original post was about full frame sensors and nothing else here are a couple of comments.

1) Would I rather have the D850 sensor instead of the sensor in my 5DsR? Absolutely! My 5DsR is great up to ISO 400. It is useable at ISO 800. At ISO 1600 and above the raw files are very noisy. My friend's D850 raw files at ISO 6400 have noise comparable to my 5DsR at ISO 800. What's not to like? Stepping back a generation, his D810 at ISO 3200 is comparable to my 5DsR at ISO 800.

2) Nikon is not dependent on Sony for their sensors. Nikon designed the D850 sensor in house and has it manufactured by TowerJazz, the Israeli foundry with plants around the world, who also manufacture Leica sensors. Google "Who makes the D850 sensor".

I certainly agree that Canon makes great glass. My 100-400 II is my favorite lens which, coupled with my 5DsR, has produced photos with astounding detail. I also love my M5. It is a superb small lightweight camera made better by the fact that I can use my L glass on it. My Nikon friend drools every time I get it out. In addition, Canon's service and support is the best available. However, I don't see how anyone can compare the specs and the photos produced by the D850 to Canon's current offerings and not agree that Canon is well behind on sensors. The only good news is that the 5D IV was a big step forward. I hope the 5DsR II and the 5D V will be equally large improvements.

[Waddizzle]

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@Bazsl wrote:

Remembering that the original post was about full frame sensors and nothing else here are a couple of comments.

1) Would I rather have the D850 sensor instead of the sensor in my 5DsR? Absolutely! My 5DsR is great up to ISO 400. It is useable at ISO 800. At ISO 1600 and above the raw files are very noisy. My friend's D850 raw files at ISO 6400 have noise comparable to my 5DsR at ISO 800. What's not to like? Stepping back a generation, his D810 at ISO 3200 is comparable to my 5DsR at ISO 800.

2) Nikon is not dependent on Sony for their sensors. Nikon designed the D850 sensor in house and has it manufactured by TowerJazz, the Israeli foundry with plants around the world, who also manufacture Leica sensors. Google "Who makes the D850 sensor".

I certainly agree that Canon makes great glass. My 100-400 II is my favorite lens which, coupled with my 5DsR, has produced photos with astounding detail. I also love my M5. It is a superb small lightweight camera made better by the fact that I can use my L glass on it. My Nikon friend drools every time I get it out. In addition, Canon's service and support is the best available. However, I don't see how anyone can compare the specs and the photos produced by the D850 to Canon's current offerings and not agree that Canon is well behind on sensors. The only good news is that the 5D IV was a big step forward. I hope the 5DsR II and the 5D V will be equally large improvements.

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You’re right.  Trade in your Canon gear for a Nikon D850.  I want some cheap gear.  BTW, I thought you said Sony.