Update: Video - Canon 6D turns itself off after a few shots with fully charged battery

[ddyourself]

Update: I uploaded my video to youtube, please comment:

http://youtu.be/3PNLUYd8g7A

TIA and pardon me for my English.

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I posted this originally at another forum, and somebody suggested me to post it here as well, to get more help.

Long story short, I purchased a brand new Canon 6D from B&H on Oct 24th, 2013. From early december, the camera starts to shut itself off randomly and displaying empty battery. I found the camera constantly shuts itself off after 20 - 100 continuous shots with a FULLY charged battery (right off charger, showing 8.23V using multimeter, and showing 98% in battery info).

The camera will just turn itself off in the middle of shooting, showing empty battery int the shoulder window. The solution is simple, open the battery door, then close it again, no need even to pull the battery.

So, I contacted Canon support, sent the camera to the VA service facility, waiting for it be repaired. As an engineer myself, I understand things fail, and I thought this is such an easy issue to reproduce, anybody should be able to repro it.

Couple of days later, I received a phone call to send my accessories in, no problem, debugging needs more info, that's normal. I sent my lens and stuff in. I unfortunately had to bear the cruel fact that I don't have a decent camera for the holiday, though I have a backup.

After a long wait, on 12/28the, the accessories were delivered at 9:35am. At 10am, they called me, they were sending the camera back. No issue at all. I was like, have you tested AT ALL? They didn't care, sending the camera back regardless. 

I received the camera on Jan 2nd, and saw the same issue on that day. Of course, it was NOT fixed at all.

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I googled really hard, somebody said he had similar issue but it was a defective battery, so I got a brand new Canon battery, unfortunately, the same issue pops up again.

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Ok, the only choice for me is to send it back again.  But this time I am totally amazed by Canon.

I sent the camera in again with my lens and battery. Also, a video showing the issue on a standalone CF card (I know 6D does not take CF, just to put the video on it).

Couples of days later, they called asking for accessories, I was like, what accessories, I don't have any more.

Then the camera sit in their facility for a few days for nothing. All of sudden I received a phone call on Monday morning, said it is ready. The camera has no issue at all.

I called, asked whether they have watched the video, they told me two technicians, including a senior one, was not able to upload the video to the computer. I was like, what the hell? why the heck you need to upload it to the computer, find a card reader, plug the card in, double click, how simple is that?

I talked to the service manager over the phone, he told me that there is nothing he could do, if their technician said so. They have decided to send my camera back, NOT fixed, again. I esclated the issue again, but haven't heard anything back yet.

Honestly, I am totally pissed, how stupid can they be? I included a letter with detailed steps on how to reproduce this issue. As an engineer myself, I know how easy to reproduce this issue. But what shocked me is that they don't even know or they didn't even bother to watch the video. In the same letter, I asked/begged them to contact me if they cannot reproduce the issue instead of just sending it back unfixed.

Guys, any other ways to get their attention? I already filed a BBB complaint. For a brand new camera of 3 months old, it has been in Canon's repair shop for almost a month. Leave to say that I missed the most importand holiday season in the year. This is simply not acceptable.

[diverhank]

Wow...after watching the video...I don't know what to say...you were able to reproduce it so easily so many times...It is unfathomable that the Canon guys couldn't reproduce it at all.  Were they even trying?

Have you tried asking for a replacement?  This problem would make the camera unuseable to me.  Instead of trying to fix it, you need to get a new one.  Try demanding it.  They have lemon laws for cars, there ought to be one for cameras too.  Canon can keep the offending camera and play with it more but you can't afford not to have one for too long.

Regarding the problem, it's obvious to me that the battery voltage/current detection circuitry is the offending one, if you can rule out the batteries.  

Regarding the batteries, I must relate a story which is true and it happened to my sister in law - it's still ongoing sort of.  She recently bought a brand new Lexus Sedan and two weeks out of the dealer, the battery went dead after a couple of days without driving.  Battery was charged and a few days later, battery went dead...The car went back to the dealer and they told her 1. She left her lights on then 2. she didn't know how to drive properly so the car failed to charge then 3. She needs to unplug the battery when parking more than 2 days - they even showed her the installation manual (which outlines the deep storage procedure).  This went on for several months and the dealer couldn't duplicate the problem or refusing to try very hard.  After being threatened with returning the car using the lemon law, they kept replacing the battery but after the third new battery, amazingly enough, the problem hasn't shown up for a month now...What is the chance of 3 brand new batteries were bad back to back? But this happened to my sister in law.  I agree with ebiggs...the battery voltage curve versus capacity is very weird...it will show a full plateau with a cliff at very low capacity end. Let's say if the cliff is at 25%.  What this means is if you check the voltage, it will show you 90% full  even at 26% capacity then when it hits the cliff at 25%, it'll show you close to zero.   The camera battery indication, I guess is interpolated so the effect is not so obvious.  But for a defective battery, it can fool the camera easily to show what you saw.

Canon should at least give you new batteries to try.  I just hope Canon, unlike Lexus, would believe its customer instead of accusing them not knowing what they are doing.  My sister in law would never buy another Lexus for as long as she lives now. It's sad - good car...very bad batteries.

I don't doubt you have checked everything but just in case, I'd inpect with a flashlight the camera battery compartment leads to make sure they weren't partially covered by protective plastics.  If you know someone that you can borrow more batteries and even better a battery grip and see if you still would have the problem.  The grip would be a good debugging tool since the battery leads are separate from the regular battery.  If you still have the problem then you can rule out the leads...the circuitry is the remaining culprit.

[ebiggs1]

"Instead of trying to fix it, you need to get a new one."

They are not going to replace the camera if there is nothing wrong with it. There would be no point. Now replacing  the batteries or charger, OK, I agree.

I can't imagine Canon is not trying and testing it to the fullest. Maybe I am wrong but I really doubt it. Especially with the dealings I have had with them. I don't know what the problem is but I am still going with a faulty battery and/or charger.

[diverhank]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"Instead of trying to fix it, you need to get a new one."

They are not going to replace the camera if there is nothing wrong with it. There would be no point. Now replacing  the batteries or charger, OK, I agree.

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At least the OP would be able to rule out the camera.  I'm agreeing with you that it's a battery/charger issue but you will never know.  Must give the OP the benefit of the doubt.  I would definitely try a battery grip to rule it out.

Come to think of it, I personally had similar occurrence  that happened with my Canon 50D, freshly charged battery would go dead within minutes.  In my case I quickly found the culprit which was the charger.  It would lie to me that the battery is fully charged (steady light) while it's not charged at all.  Yes both battery and charger is Canon.  When I put the battery in, the camera would show a fully charged battery but would show zero within minutes of use...this is my cliff example I was talking about.  To this day, I make sure the battery is charged by the time it takes in the charger, not by the charger indication.

[ddyourself]

Not trying to disagree, but two technicians were not able to watch a simple video? I doubt they have tested well enough.

I agree the charger could be the weak link here. But that does not explain why the camera thought the battery had 92% power when it turned itself off showing empty battery.

[ebiggs1]

Actually it does. If the battery, a lithium, gets to a certain discharge level, it can act this way. It will regenerate itself enough to run a few lesser demands but will fail when you ask it to work the shutter for instance.

I feel for you and I hope a solution is found. Whatever you must let me know how it turns out.

You are going to kick yourself if it does indeed turn out to be a simple battery or charger!  I almost hope it is the camera at this point of your frustration.

[ddyourself]

I definitely will.

Just got off phone with Canon again, the question I asked is whether they have charged my battery or not? If not, then it is not a battery issue or charger issue. It is me having magic failing cameras.

I will keep you all posted. I do hope it is a simple charger or battery issue, at least the fix will be simple then.  But I did send my charger and battery in the first time, and when I get the camera back, I was able to repro the issue that day.

[ebiggs1]

All I can do is wish you "Good luck". 

[amfoto1]

I know this is frustrating to you.... but try to be realistic.

First, a technician sitting at a workbench might not have internet connectivity to look at your video. Or even if they do, many companies block certain websites (and Youtube is very high on that list) to prevent employees from wasting time or inadvertantly downloading malware. A supervisor or customer service rep might have access and be looking at the video, then passing along info about what they are seeing to the tech actually working on your camera.

"I did send in my battery, and my charger last time (not this time)."

If the tech is testing the camera with their batteries and chargers and is unable to reproduce the problem, then IMO it's highly likely the problem is with your battery and/or charger. Regardless of what battery status is indicated on the camera. A faulty battery can be showing a charge, when it's not really charged. The LP-E6 battery module has a chip inside that's supposed to be "reporting" to the camera and the charger. If, for example, that chip were faulty, the charger might shut down before it actually charged up the battery, giving you the "full" indication. Then once that battery is put back in, the camera would shut down when it just doesn't have enough power to operate. It could be that the charge state you are seeing on the camera are carried over from the last successful use, and as soon as it tries to "update" battery status with current info it detects the low battery status and shuts down.

All the symptoms I saw in your video I'd first be inclined to attribute to a bad battery or bad charger. That would be the first place I'd look. If one battery did that, I'd try another. If two batteries did the same thing, I'd try a third. If all three did the same thing, I'd try a different charger.

Apparently you did send the battery and charger with the camera previously. Maybe Canon failed to test it with those, used their own instead. (Generally speaking, Canon tells you not to send in accessories with an item, probably just to keep them from getting separated and lost. So the techs are probably not accustomed to finding batteries and chargers included with cameras for testing purposes.)

I would only start to consider the camera itself might be at fault, after completely ruling out the possibility that the batteries or charger aren't at fault. Especially if the techs using their batteries and their charger are unable to reproduce the problem! They are probably scratching their heads trying to figure it out, trying leaving the camera on for longer and longer periods of time. There is nothing worse than chasing an intermittent problem.... except maybe trying to chase it down without all the components involved at the time of the fault.

It can be very frustrating, problems like these. I had a car that started dying occasionally while driving... the engine would just stop, even cruising at 65 MPH on the freeway. After the first couple times, I tried but couldn't figure it out myself, so it was off to a shop that specialized in the make and model to get it sorted and repaired. Six weeks, $1800 and twice completely swapping out every fuel-related part on my car from a known-good car (and I do mean everything... even the gas tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel distributor, computer that controlled fuel delivery, injectors, sensors, etc., etc.)... We were still baffled! Everything that worked on their car intermittently failed on mine. Everything off of my car worked fine when it was installed on their car!

Six weeks and $1800 later we finally tracked it down to a single, bad wire hidden behind the engine. It looked okay, but was broken inside the insulation. It wouild make contact most of the time, but wiggling it to mimic how it might flex at times when driving would intermittently cause the car to die.  

My point is that this sort of problem often is down to the simplest of things. But they sure can be extremely frustrating until the fault is found and fixed!

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

[ddyourself]

I send in the video on a CF card, telling them the memory card has a video ... not youtube. I couldn't believe they don't have a card reader.... Though it could be true...

The tech did call and asked for the battery and charger shipped to them the first time. But no problem was identified.

Anyway, it seems the battery or the charger are more likely to be the issue. Since I am seeing the same problem on two different batteries. I will try to get a replacement charger and  try if they decide to just send it back without any fix.

However, if they never charged the battery since I sent in, and was not able to repro it with it. I gonna have to say that I have magics failing camera.  Same camera, same battery, I reproduced right before I packed it; and when it arrived Canon, it is just got fixed ...

Btw: the explanation I got from Canon about what happend in the video is no explanation. They don't know. But unless they can reproduce it, my video means nothing.

[ebiggs1]

I don't think they use batteries for bench testing. It would not be reliable for a service center that is built for speed to keep charging batteries. Now after you have drawn their attention to it they should and likely will. I am glad you are sending the battery AND charger in.

It will get fixed now!