R5 fails to focus on subjects

[johniccp]

New Canon R5 this spring, replaces 7D Mark II.  Here's a short list of AF items for which I miss the 7D.

(1) focus on a blank object.  I have a Bower desktop tripod that holds a cell phone.  The backing on the clamp is a dull black.  The R5 can't focus on this or anything else that lacks contrast, such as a blank wall or a cloudless sky.

(2) a person walking through the dining room.  My wife walks through the dining room and I'm trying to get the AF to lock on her.  With the shutter semi-continously held down, the R5 can track her about half the time.

(3) lacrosse players in the rain.  I tried servo and one-shot mode, not much difference.

1 & 2 can likely be fixed by a change in AF mode.

3 however needs more detail.

My sports events are typically late afternoon through early evening. Variety of lighting.

Lens: RF 70-200mm f/2.8

Mode: TV, usually at 1/1000

Drive mode: usually slow speed continuous

AF method: Expanded AF ( a square surrounded by four little squares )

AF operation: usually one shot.

Metering mode: Evaluative metering

Shutter mode: Elec. 1st-curtain

From the AF menu: Subject to detect is People, and Continuous AF is Enabled

The Servo AF is Case 4 where subjects accelerate or decelaerate quickly

And Switching tracked subjects (AF4 menu) is set to 2.

Firmware version: 1.3.1

And this unrelated question, if Eco mode is off and Power Saving settings are set to 3 minutes, why oh why do I have to wake up the camera within twenty seconds of my last shot?  (sorry, that's a rant.  I use the AF-On to wake-up the camera every 15-20 seconds.  I'm developing a nervous twitch...)

Thanks for reading.  I look forward to responses.

[Waddizzle]

(1). This is how a camera is supposed to work.  It needs contrast even your 7D2.

(2)  You have the wrong AF settings and AF point selection.  It has become your job to track the subject, not the camera.

(3). This performance failure is probably not all that different from your second scenario.

"Lens: RF 70-200mm f/2.8

Mode: TV, usually at 1/1000

Drive mode: usually slow speed continuous

AF method: Expanded AF ( a square surrounded by four little squares )

AF operation: usually one shot.

Metering mode: Evaluative metering

Shutter mode: Elec. 1st-curtain"

The settings highlighted in Bold Text are not consistient with your desire for the camera to track moving subjects.

"From the AF menu: Subject to detect is People, and Continuous AF is Enabled

The Servo AF is Case 4 where subjects accelerate or decelaerate quickly

And Switching tracked subjects (AF4 menu) is set to 2.

Firmware version: 1.3.1"

Your settings have put the responsibility of tracking subjects on you, the photographer, not the camera.

[johniccp]

First, thank you for the quick response.

It is true that I, photograper, have to focus on a subject that is the third or fourth closest within the frame.  So, it makes sense to me to have a small focal point.

So based on Waddizzle’s comment, AF operation should change to Servo?

as for the blank wall, the 7D had a red light that hit the wall and bounced back. The camera measured the reflection time and did autofocus based upon that.  Indoors, it was nifty.  The R5 just gives up. Not a deal breaker though.  My adjuster ring adjusts the AF operation.  But the scenario points out how important contrasts are to the R5’s AF system.

sports photographers welcome to add your thoughts.

[Waddizzle]

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@johniccp wrote:

as for the blank wall, the 7D had a red light that hit the wall and bounced back. The camera measured the reflection time and did autofocus based upon that.  Indoors, it was nifty.  The R5 just gives up. Not a deal breaker though.  My adjuster ring adjusts the AF operation.  But the scenario points out how important contrasts are to the R5’s AF system.

---

Sorry, but your explanation of the AF-Assisst Beam is totally incorrect.  Both the 7D2 and the R5 contain an AF-Assist beam, which fires in low light situations to provide additional illumination for the AF system.  Most people disable it because it can be annoying to your subjects.

If you have not already done so, I suggest that you download a copy of the full R5 User Guide from Canon Support.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/ 

[johniccp · Accepted solution]

Lens: RF 70-200mm f/2.8

Mode: TV, usually at 1/1000

Drive mode: usually slow speed continuous

AF method: Expanded AF ( a square surrounded by four little squares )

AF method: One point AF

AF operation: usually one shot.

AF operation: Servo

Metering mode: Evaluative metering

Shutter mode: Elec. 1st-curtain

From the AF menu: Subject to detect is People, and Continuous AF is Enabled

The Servo AF is Case 4 where subjects accelerate or decelaerate quickly

And Switching tracked subjects (AF4 menu) is set to 2.

Tracking sensitivity boosted to 1 and accel./decl. tracking boosted to 2.

Firmware version: 1.3.1

At night, under the lights, I'm still using TV mode and allow the aperature to be wide open and the ISO roams up to 25,600.

In the photo below, #11 had been running the lenght of the field.  As so often happens at the crucial moment, the athlete is in heavy traffic, but for just this once, the camera stayed with him.

I'm getting more comfortable with this setup as I practice more.  I'll post another question, later.

[Waddizzle]

---

@johniccp wrote:

Lens: RF 70-200mm f/2.8

Mode: TV, usually at 1/1000

Drive mode: usually slow speed continuous

AF method: Expanded AF ( a square surrounded by four little squares )

AF method: One point AF

AF operation: usually one shot.

AF operation: Servo

Metering mode: Evaluative metering

Shutter mode: Elec. 1st-curtain

From the AF menu: Subject to detect is People, and Continuous AF is Enabled

The Servo AF is Case 4 where subjects accelerate or decelaerate quickly

And Switching tracked subjects (AF4 menu) is set to 2.

Tracking sensitivity boosted to 1 and accel./decl. tracking boosted to 2.

Firmware version: 1.3.1

At night, under the lights, I'm still using TV mode and allow the aperature to be wide open and the ISO roams up to 25,600.

In the photo below, #11 had been running the lenght of the field.  As so often happens at the crucial moment, the athlete is in heavy traffic, but for just this once, the camera stayed with him.

I'm getting more comfortable with this setup as I practice more.  I'll post another question, later.

---

You still don't seem to understand. When you use only a single AF point, the camera cannot track anything.  All that it can do is focus.  The camera cannot recognize faces using a single AF point.  You must use one of the Zone AF modes for any tracking mode in the camera to engage.

With these settings the responsibility of tracking a subject falls onto you, the photographer.

[shawnphoto]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

You still don't seem to understand. When you use only a single AF point, the camera cannot track anything.  All that it can do is focus.  The camera cannot recognize faces using a single AF point.  You must use one of the Zone AF modes for any tracking mode in the camera to engage.

With these settings the responsibility of tracking a subject falls onto you, the photographer.

---

Focus points are an illusion on the EOS R5. In fact the camera is always tracking things no matter what AF method is selected.

[Waddizzle]

---

@shawnphoto wrote:

---

@Waddizzle wrote:

You still don't seem to understand. When you use only a single AF point, the camera cannot track anything.  All that it can do is focus.  The camera cannot recognize faces using a single AF point.  You must use one of the Zone AF modes for any tracking mode in the camera to engage.

With these settings the responsibility of tracking a subject falls onto you, the photographer.

---

Focus points are an illusion on the EOS R5. In fact the camera is always tracking things no matter what AF method is selected.

---

I am not talking about focus tracking.  I am talking about facial recognition and tracking the subject's movement around the frame.

[EDIT]. If the camera tracks movement around the frame when AF Method is 1-Point AF, then I will stand corrected.

[jrhoffman75]

"My experience was that unless I narrowed the focus to a single point, the camera would choose to focus on the nearest human object. "

All the Canon AF systems, unless directed differently by AF point placement, will focus on the closest object to the camera with sufficient contrast. The camera assumes the closest object is the object of interest.

[Waddizzle]

Have you ever heard the story about the seven blind men and the elephant?

There was once seven blind men who lived and traveled together.  One day they heard the trumpet of an elephant, and wondered what type of beast could create such a sound.  The elephant rider stopped and allowed the seven blind men to touch the elephant to experience its' size and get an idea of how to recognize an elephant.

Each man touched a different part of the elephant, and they could not agree on what the elephant looked like.  The man who touched the tail said it was long and skinny like a small snake.  The man who touched the leg said it was round and tall like tree.  The man who touched ear said it was like a curtain.  The man who touched the tuck said it was like a tree branch.  The man who touched the snout said it was as big and as the largest snake.  The man who touched its' side said it was flat like a wall.

The seventh man did not touch the elephant, and listened to his friends debate the nature of an elephant.  He, too, was puzzled by the wide variety of descriptions he was hearing.  That is when the driver told him that each one of them was correct in their descriptions.  The driver told him that one hand cannot "see" the whole elephant at once, but by working together as a team they have been able to accurately describe the elephant.

It works the same way with a single AF point.  One AF point cannot recognize anything.