Prefix file name underscore versus 8

[Zbadger]

I use Adobe color space for my 5D Mark 4 which uses a file name with an initial underscore. However I am finding that on some of my folders the majority of my files will be correctly labeled with an underscore but then a lesser number of them will randomly instead have an 8 starting off the name of the file. I contacted Canon technical support and they have never heard of this issue.

[RobertTheFat · Accepted solution]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"The RAW file metadata is supposed to describe the RAW file, not some edits that someone made."

WE AGREE!   It is simply a matter of how each editor handles it but there is one.

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Frankly, Gentlemen, if I've inadvertently done something to help bridge the gap between you, my day has not been wasted! 

Well, actually, it has. I'm supposed to be spending my time cleaning out our old house so that we can complete our move to Philadelphia. But that's another story.

[ebiggs1]

Here is another way to think about DPP4 and the others remaps or changes the curve, not the colors. ONLY on the screen or monitor.

This is very important, "when you are processing the file to print with an Adobe RGB compatable printer."  Like I said earlier that is usually, actually all the time, only a photo printer.  Not just the office color printer.  They are certainly sRGB printers.

[ebiggs1]

"...not for DPP. DPP uses no "tag file", and does allow you to save back to the RAW file..."

I do use DPP4 on sporadic occasions. I am not a real knowledgeable DPP4 user true but DPP4 does use a tag or meta file.  It is very unlikely it files color space back to the Raw file. I know DPP4 can save to a Raw file but not color space.

Raw files have no color space, DPP displays data from the Raw file in the selected color space set in the camera just like any other post editor.  When you change the color space the Raw file will be reinterpreted into the new color space. But that is not saved back to the Raw file.  If it did it could never be changed if you set a smaller CS and wanted a larger one.  I.E. saved sRGB and want AdobeRGB.

You can set DPP4 to 1 of 5 color spaces. By default it is set to sRGB which has the smallest gamut.  The CS is defined to display or print but the CS isn't set in stone until you actually export the file to a jpg or tiff.  Up to that point you haven't really converted or altered anything.

My practice is to set the camera to AdobeRGB.  I only shoot  Raw. I don't save a jpg along with it.  That isn't necessary 99% of the time. If I am printing I leave it. If it goes to social media I change to sRGB as a jpg.

[RobertTheFat]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"...not for DPP. DPP uses no "tag file", and does allow you to save back to the RAW file..."

I do use DPP4 on sporadic occasions. I am not a real knowledgeable DPP4 user true but DPP4 does use a tag or meta file.  It is very unlikely it files color space back to the Raw file. I know DPP4 can save to a Raw file but not color space.

Raw files have no color space, DPP displays data from the Raw file in the selected color space set in the camera just like any other post editor.  When you change the color space the Raw file will be reinterpreted into the new color space. But that is not saved back to the Raw file.  If it did it could never be changed if you set a smaller CS and wanted a larger one.  I.E. saved sRGB and want AdobeRGB.

You can set DPP4 to 1 of 5 color spaces. By default it is set to sRGB which has the smallest gamut.  The CS is defined to display or print but the CS isn't set in stone until you actually export the file to a jpg or tiff.  Up to that point you haven't really converted or altered anything.

My practice is to set the camera to AdobeRGB.  I only shoot  Raw. I don't save a jpg along with it.  That isn't necessary 99% of the time. If I am printing I leave it. If it goes to social media I change to sRGB as a jpg.

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No, DPP4 doesn't use a tag or meta file; all metadata are stored in the RAW file itself. It may use a temporary file during the editing process; but if it does, that file is not saved after the edit is complete.

I'm not sure whether the user's color space preference is among the metadata saved in the RAW file. I think it probably is, but I haven't had time to verify that. I'll try to remember to check it out the next time I do some editing. But in any case, saving the user's preference does not mean changing the RAW data itself. Ernie is of course correct that the RAW data remain unaltered.

[ebiggs1]

"DPP4 doesn't use a tag or meta file;"

It does use a meta file. WHere or how it does is the question.

[RobertTheFat]

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@Zbadger wrote:

In response to TTMartin, Bob and all who have contributed to this thread , my thanks and hopefully my final comments and question below.

TTMartin - If I did give it to someone in green mode, it may have been once and that should not account for the 150+ pics over 10 day folders that are with an 8 prefix.  

Bob - Windows does not do a good job or chronoligically correcting the date issue - I have tried and also screwed around a bit with Bridge and Lightroom.  Have not tried DPP though for reordering items.

Lastly and most importantly, I do not want this mix of _ and 8 prefixes to happen again.  So just to confirm with everyone  --  I will change my settings in the 5D MarkIV for color space to sRGB and not worry about that at all for my .jpg images.   But if after reviewing my RAW/.jpg images, there is a great image I want to have professionally printed, I can just go to my RAW frame and process it how I wish and the RAW frame will NOT BE AFFECTED IN ANY WAY by the sRGB setting I have inputted in the color space setting within the camera menu (red section, page 2).  Correct????

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Not quite. I believe that in DPP, at least, (not sure about other editors because I rarely use them) the camera's color space setting will become the default setting in the editor. So before you do the conversion to JPEG, check to make sure that the setting is what you want. And in DPP, at least, the display setting and the setting used for conversion are separate parameters. So the editor may, for example, be set to display in sRGB (correct for most monitors) but convert to Adobe RGB (used by some printers) when producing a JPEG.

[Zbadger]

OK - now I am perhaps confused.  I download my images with EOS Utility 3.  Once dowloaded, I have a RAW and .jpg image for each frame.  I believe from your post and ebiggs before you, I should assume that since I have just today changed my color space settings to sRGB, that my .jpgs will appear as such.  Fine.  However, if I want to process and see the results of any particular RAW image under AdobeRGB which I might consider for professional printing, what need I do?

[RobertTheFat]

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@Zbadger wrote:

OK - now I am perhaps confused.  I download my images with EOS Utility 3.  Once dowloaded, I have a RAW and .jpg image for each frame.  I believe from your post and ebiggs before you, I should assume that since I have just today changed my color space settings to sRGB, that my .jpgs will appear as such.  Fine.  However, if I want to process and see the results of any particular RAW image under AdobeRGB which I might consider for professional printing, what need I do?

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Ensure that the editor's display color space is set to Adobe RGB. HOWEVER, that may not tell you what you want to know. The reason for using a particular color space is to match, as closely as possible, the characteristics of the device (monitor or printer) that you're using. So you may get a more realistic look at the final result by observing the image with sRGB (which most monitors prefer), even if you plan to print it using Adobe RGB (a slightly wider gamut recognized by some printers).

It's important to understand that color space is not a subjective display parameter like "Daylight" or "Cloudy", or another way of specifying the color temperature. It's purely a way of matching, as closely as possible, the capabilities (e.g., the number of identifiable colors) of the display device or printer. Sometimes you have to start by taking the device manufacturer's word for it. Then if you don't like the result, you can try a different setting.

[ebiggs1]

White balance and several other camera settings ony effect JPEG files. If you shoot RAW, the sRGB or AdobeRGB setting has no impact whatsoever on the Raw image data file. That is set by your photo editor.

[TTMartin]

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@Zbadger wrote:
I use Adobe color space for my 5D Mark 4 which uses a file name with an initial underscore. However I am finding that on some of my folders the majority of my files will be correctly labeled with an underscore but then a lesser number of them will randomly instead have an 8 starting off the name of the file. I contacted Canon technical support and they have never heard of this issue.

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The underscore in the filename indicates you are using a different colorspace. i.e. AdobeRBG

Did you set a different colorspace that got saved in one of your Custom Settings (C1, C2, C3)

[mjh8154]

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@TTMartin wrote:

The underscore in the filename indicates you are using a different colorspace. i.e. AdobeRBG

Did you set a different colorspace that got saved in one of your Custom Settings (C1, C2, C3)

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Thank you for your succinct answer! I had changed the color space on my R5 but did not connect that change with the file name change (having the leading character be replaced with the underscore) and it was driving me CRAZY!

Happy Holidays!