Not great images with new 6D. Please take a look and give me your thoughts

[Brad]

I'm going on a 2 week trip to Japan in 3 days so I'm hoping to figure this out before I leave.

I got my new 6d with 24-105 L lens kit, and also the 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM. It doesn't seem like any of the photos are that sharp without a very high contrast shot in full sunlight. Indoor shots or those with lower contrast (tree bark, leaves, something in the shade, etc.) seem pretty unsharp to me. I'm not sure if the AF just can't get a precise focus, or if the sensor just can't get good detail unless those conditions are met.

This is my first DSLR, although I've had film SLRs for 30+ years before that, and digital point and shoots for the last decade or so. I'm not sure if my expectations were too high or if there's something wrong with the camera, lenses, AF, or IS systems, or if I'm doing something wrong.

Some photos are below. I shot them all above the 1/focal length rule and some 2x or 3x or more above that, so in theory that would eliminate the camera shake issue, and also in theory the IS system should give you 2-3 stops so it doesn't seem to me that camera shake should be the issue. (I've also taken tripod shots and had the same issue so I don't think it's camera shake.)

All are large fine jpegs (20mb) straight from the camera, blown up to 100%.


santa1 Indoors daylight, no interior lights on, 24mm focal length, 1/30, ISO 1000

santa2 Indoors daylight, with interior lights on, 105mm focal length, 1/125, ISO 6400

santa3 Indoors daylight, with interior lights on, 300mm focal length, 1/320, ISO 10000

santa4 Indoors daylight, with interior lights on, 300mm focal length, 1/640, ISO 20000

wall1 outdoors, 105mm focal length, 1/500, ISO 100

wall2 outdoors, 270mm focal length, 1/500, ISO 100

treebark1 outdoors, 70mm focal length, 1/125, ISO 25600

treebark2 outdoors, 300mm focal length, 1/320, ISO 25600

license1 outdoors, 300mm focal length, 1/320, ISO 25600

leaves1 outdoors, 70mm focal length, 1/320, ISO 25600

leaves2 outdoors, 300mm focal length, 1/320, ISO 500

truck, 105mm focal length, 1/250, ISO 100

Other than the truck badge and maybe the wall photos (high contrast, full sunlight), most of them don't seem that sharp to me. What do you guys think? Most people are raving about how good the low light performance is on the 6d but I'm just not seeing it, not even in moderate light.

Here's a link to where someone compares a few different cameras one of them being the 6d. My images are not as sharp as them as far as I can tell.
http://www.etherpilot.com/photo/test/misc/6d_5d3_d600_colfix.jpg

Any thoughts or suggestions you can give are greatly appreciated! Thanks! 

[Brad]

I have been experimenting with ISO max settings and trying to find the highest one that still give good results. It seems like 3200 is generally pretty good and 6400 is often too.

One thing that I'm finding a bit annoying about the "auto" setting on the camera is how even if you have a higher max ISO set, when you get into a lower light situation it more often than not just reduces the shutter speed to a point where I'm sure you're getting some camera shake going on. There seems to be some missing logic in the brain about when it should raise the ISO instead of reducing the shutter speed, but I guess that's a whole other discussion.

I'm sure that 70-300 does have some limitations and the f5.6 at the long end is one of them. I really wanted to get a better longer lens but you know, I just dropped $3k on the camera/lens kit and accessories and didn't really want to drop another $1.2k+ on the longer lens right at this moment so I figured I'd get that cheaper lens now since it has generally very good reviews (some say nearly L series IQ), use it for a while, sell it later if I don't like it, and then find a cheaper better lens on ebay a little later.

I've heard that a lot of people use lightroom but I've never tried it. I've got the whole adobe CS3 suite (including photoshop) but I guess that's a few years out of date now and not sure if it would work. I've heard none of the products support the 6D yet anyway (can't read the raw files). I'm not sure if eventually they'll release it for CS3 or if it's too old by now. Good tip on the 30 day trial of lightroom. Raw is a whole new world for me and I imagine I'll stick with using the jpegs for 90% of shots unless there's one I really want that's too crappy in jpeg and I need to get into raw to tweak it.

I definitely plan on shooting raw+jpeg and will have my laptop to offload my cards.

I think I'm getting a better handle on the camera/lenses and how they act in different situations which is maybe really what the bottom line is all about. I just wanted to make sure that the camera is working properly and that these results are about what I should be expecting. I'll try to go out tomorrow and take a few more shots and see if I do any better. I may post some here again if i have any questions.

Thanks for helping me to sort this all out! This is a good forum!

[jfo]

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@Brad wrote:

One thing that I'm finding a bit annoying about the "auto" setting on the camera is how even if you have a higher max ISO set, when you get into a lower light situation it more often than not just reduces the shutter speed to a point where I'm sure you're getting some camera shake going on. There seems to be some missing logic in the brain about when it should raise the ISO instead of reducing the shutter speed, but I guess that's a whole other discussion.

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Not sure the specifics on the 6D and for the fully-automatic shooting mode, but I was just flipping through my 5D3 menu, and there was a place to set minimum shutter speed.  Perhaps there's that on you 6D also?

[Scatterbrained]

Just a couple of thought to pile on here. 

First,  Modern DLSR cameras have anti aliasing filters over the sensors.  This will mandate some level of sharpening in post.  If you aren't sharpening your image it will look a bit soft at 100%. 

Second, the higher iso's are great, but as you creap the iso higher you sacrifice fine detail.   Even as you pass iso 800.  Yes you can get clean shots up to and maybe even beyond iso 6400, but the fine detail just won't be there.  It may seem fine when you are artificially testing the camera in otherwise good light, but in lighting conditions that legitimately demand iso 6400 and higher, you'll realize just how little lattitude there is in the high iso files and just how much luminance noise occurs.     

Third, you have some seriously high iso's for outdoors shots.  This indicates that you may have the lens stopped down substantially.  Don't do that.   Difraction from stopping the lens down too much will cause additional softness that is evident at 100%. 

Fourth, if you have a cheap UV filter (Tiffen/Canon, etc.) take it off.   I've seen people get so frustrated with the poor IQ of their lenses that they ended up selling them, only to find out from the buyer that the issue was the cheap UV filter. 

Fifth, as has been pointed out, the 70-300 is not exactly the sharpest tool in Canons shed. 

Sixth, if you're shooting jpeg, you can tweak the sharpness settings in your picture style.   I would recommend getting aclimated with pictures styles if you don't intend to dive into raw processing yet.

My recommendations, I'd have to agree with Scotty.  Get a flash.  I would also recommend Lr.  It is an incredibly powerful raw editor and quite good for digital asset management as well.   For online training you can always get an account with KelbyTraining.com or Lynda.com.  Both are great resources with tutorial videos from top proffesionals. 

[Scatterbrained]

As of right now Lightroom 4.3 supports the 6D and the D600.

[ebiggs1]

"Fifth, as has been pointed out, the 70-300 is not exactly the sharpest tool in Canons shed."

I agree with this as this is not one of my favorite Canon lens.

If you shoot RAW, I highly reccommend Adobe's Camera RAW 7.2 over even Canon's own software. I know it isn't cheap but if you can aford the price of admission it is well worht it. Because you have to have either PSE or CS6 (PS).

[cicopo]

We're having the first real storm of the season & it's a good one. The internet (rural wireless) has been down most of the day but hopefully it's back on for a while.

DID I READ that you're using the AUTO mode? IF SO switch to Program mode if it has it or start playing with Tv & Av. I haven't seen any Canon DSLR that made decent decisions in AUTO but they make excellent ones in Program. Not having downloaded the 6D manual I'm guessing that it does have Program mode.

You might want to read the quick start guide I posted in another thread a while back.

https://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/New-Rebel-t3i/td-p/4059

[Brad]

RE:
"Not sure the specifics on the 6D and for the fully-automatic shooting mode, but I was just flipping through my 5D3 menu, and there was a place to set minimum shutter speed.  Perhaps there's that on you 6D also?"

Thanks I'll look into that.

RE:
"Fourth, if you have a cheap UV filter (Tiffen/Canon, etc.) take it off.   I've seen people get so frustrated with the poor IQ of their lenses that they ended up selling them, only to find out from the buyer that the issue was the cheap UV filter."

No for most shots I didn't have a filter on the lenses. In the last round I put some really good filters on them however but didn't see any difference in the IQ: B+W MRC f-pro on the 24-105, and a Hoya HMC super UV(0) multicoated on the 70-300.  

RE:
"Fifth, as has been pointed out, the 70-300 is not exactly the sharpest tool in Canons shed."

Actually from what I've read in several places, the 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM is a pretty sharp lens--many folks say it's a "hidden gem" and even nearly L glass level. One thread as an example:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=294&sort=7&cat=27&page=2

RE:
"As of right now Lightroom 4.3 supports the 6D and the D600."

Cool, I will look into it.

RE:
"DID I READ that you're using the AUTO mode? IF SO switch to Program mode if it has it or start playing with Tv & Av. I haven't seen any Canon DSLR that made decent decisions in AUTO but they make excellent ones in Program. Not having downloaded the 6D manual I'm guessing that it does have Program mode."

No I think all/most of my examples were in P, Tv, or Av. I did play with auto mode (all of the modes for that matter) a bit to see if it made any difference but I don't think it has really. I will check out your quick start guide-thanks!

Thanks all!

 

[cicopo]

I just downloaded the manual to see if the 6D has one of the custom settings my recently sold  7D &  my 1D4 have that I think is VERY useful & thankfully it has it. Assuming the on line manual is the same as the printed one this is from page 306, and relates to C Fn 1-6 Safety Shift. I recommend setting it to 2 which gives the camera permission to raise the ISO as needed when your selected settings won't work for the specific shot, BUT they will go back to what you have decided on for the next shot IF it will be correctly exposed. It's a great feature & one I put to use many times since learning about it.

[Brad]

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@cicopo wrote:

I just downloaded the manual to see if the 6D has one of the custom settings my recently sold  7D &  my 1D4 have that I think is VERY useful & thankfully it has it. Assuming the on line manual is the same as the printed one this is from page 306, and relates to C Fn 1-6 Safety Shift. I recommend setting it to 2 which gives the camera permission to raise the ISO as needed when your selected settings won't work for the specific shot, BUT they will go back to what you have decided on for the next shot IF it will be correctly exposed. It's a great feature & one I put to use many times since learning about it.

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That's a great  tip. Thanks! I hadn't gotten into those custom settings yet.

[RoadRunner]

Use the L lens and the camera on P to start if u don't know what to do. Just see how it goes. Don't get hung up on the techie stuff. Try to take shots under what u know should be good cirucumstances. Take your time and enjoy the learning curve. The steeper it is the higher u'll go. Good luck.