Focus point grouping for 6D with firmware change possible?

[lovetv]

Does anyone know if it is possible with a firmware update to create an option to use just the center 9 focus points?  This would make it similar to the 7D center group.  I think this would be useful for some action shots.  This might be one feature that may help me commit to Canon for my next camera.  I am currently looking to upgrade to fullframe, but Canon seems to have taken out one feature too many in the 6D and leaves me stuck in the middle.  I don't know whether to jump ship and  and hassle with selling my beautiful 70-200 II zoom and the rest of the gear.  As a consumer, I still like the option of a flash in certain bright background situations.  Thanks.

[hsbn]

The 6D only has 11 focus points. Nothing much there to group.

[lovetv]

I understand, but when I superimpose the AF points from the Canon manuals, and if they are to scale and it looks like they are, the center 9 points in the 6D group is a typical choice for all these multi-focus point cameras. I just need something like this because I don't always have a perfect aim at my kid's sporting event. I currently have the 50D, but those points are too far apart and if you use all 11 points on the 6D, the other two may focus on something that I don't intend to. Thanks.

[Skirball]

I've never heard anyone complain that the AF points are too spaced out.   Extremely unlikely that Canon would be releasing any sort of firmware change.  Have you tried just using the Center point, or using all and seeing what the miss rate is? 

[lovetv]

I am trying to take sports photo, like someone running down the field with the ball. With a telephoto, it is like shooting with a scope using the center AF point. Therefore, I miss some shots and I don't want to use all the AF points because then it will focus on his teammates that are not part of the action like on a soccer/lacrosse field. One of the attractiveness for me of the 7D and other massive AF points cameras are the options to use groups of points. I think if 6D can gave me that choice, I would buy it today (I might still take it without it). It kind of gives me the poor man's version of those better for sports camera. I can deal with the slow frame rate. I was just wondering if firmware updates can provide such an option.

[amfoto1]

I'm afraid you'll have to go to 7D or 5DIII to get Zone Focus or Expansion Points such as you want to use. 6D doesn't have it and I really doubt it ever will... that would be a pretty radical change to try to do via firmware... might not even be possible. But, hey, I'm no expert on writing firmware and some people manage to do some interesting camera hacks (search for Magic Lantern, for example).

But frankly, I shoot subjects like you want to shoot with just a Single Point most of the time with my 7Ds. Before that I did pretty much the same with 50D, 30D, and 10D. It takes some practice, but is the best way to insure focus is right where you want it as consistently as possible. Some days I take a couple thousand images and, with 7D and it's very quick AF, typically 97 or 98 percent are correctly focused, and I figure most of the missed focus shots are my fault, not the camera's. I had a few more missed focus with 50D and earlier, but still managed upward of 90 percent most of the time (when I was in practice).  

I only use the Zone and Expansion modes occasionally on 7D. Mostly when the subject is large or is against a plain or very distant background. Otherwise the camera still might choose to focus using the wrong point.

The 5D Mark II has a form of expansion points, but it's done with 6 "hidden" Assist Points that aren'tt shown in the viewfinder, are clustered right around the center point, and only work in AI Servo mode. It's sort of as if the entire Spot Metering circle is one bid AF point. Unfortunately, this only moderately helps the 5DII with AI Servo/moving subjects. Tracking moving subjects just isn't the 5DII's forté. Only three of it's AF points  are the "better" dual axis type (the visible center one and two of the hidden ones). The rest (8 visible and four more hidden ones) are single axis... some horizontal, some vertical. Heck, all nine of your 50D's AF points are dual axis type, so to some extent it has a better sports/action focus system than the 5DII. I'm not knocking the 5DII, it's a great camera for other things.... just not so much for sports/action shooting.

On 7D, 5DIII the difference between Zone Focus and Expansion is that in Zone any of the points or even multiple points can be the "starting point" for focusing. In other words, it's like one large focusing point that will pick up on whatever object covered by any of the points is closest (like a smaller version of All Points/Auto Selection). In Expansion you choose a single "starting point", but the camera can switch to using one of the adjacent points if you don't keep the starting point on the subject.

I'd recommend 7D... there are some other advantages to using a crop camera for sports, as well. It's sort of like having a "free" 1.6X teleconverter and, since a lot of sports photography is done with telephoto lenses, a cropper helps leverage your longer lenses for all they're worth. For example, I use a 300/4 IS on 7D a lot for sports, easily handheld. If I were using any of the full frame models, to fill the viewfinder the same way I'd have to get out the 500/4 iS and a solid tripod to put it on (or at least a monopod).

Yes, it's got higher frame rate, too... Though to be honest I try to avoid using it too much... 8fps fills up memory cards and hard drives fast... and can mean a lot more time spent sitting at a computer editing the results. I found 7D an excellent upgrade from 50D. The 7D has very fast AF, ideal for AI Servo work... It's got a discrete chip handling AF, much like the 1D series have. AFAIK, 6D and 5DIII don't have that.

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

[lovetv]

Thanks for everyone's input, especially from amfoto1. You provided very logical insight and stuff I never heard before. Yeah, I am not sure if firmware can do the trick either. I would have picked the 7D, but since it is 2 years old, I kind of want the latest greatest. 🙂 and my son will be graduating soon, so I will be back to just scenery/vacation photos and would like to try a full frame at this juncture. Decisions, decisions....

[Skirball]

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@lovetv wrote:
One of the attractiveness for me of the 7D and other massive AF points cameras are the options to use groups of points. I think if 6D can gave me that choice, I would buy it today (I might still take it without it). It kind of gives me the poor man's version of those better for sports camera. I can deal with the slow frame rate. I was just wondering if firmware updates can provide such an option.

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If you want the full frame of a 6D and the autofocus of a 7D then you need to get a 5d3.  The AF is the single substantial difference that separates the 6D and 5d3.  As much as I lament the lack of cross points and spread on the 6D AF, I wouldn't expect it to have the sophistication of the 7D AF given the pricepoint. 

Don't let the hype on the internet deter you, the 6D is plenty capable of capturing shots at a sporting event.  But if sport shooting is one of the main reasons you're buying a camera then the 6D is not for you.