EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

[Ramsden]

Hello from a snowy North of England 

EOS90d to hand and a new ef 70-300 IS USM just added. The attached photo was with my kit  135mm lens and I intend to take more railway + infrastructure. So I know some guys say switch off HDR probably because of its 'automatic' nature.

So I'm planning more viaduct shots and wondering about using multiple shots and learning to use bracketing. I still intend to mix freezing the train and blurring. Up to now the blurrs havent worked very well - more of a smudge! I learnt to use manual focus and try to work in M as much as possible.

So basically, will multi shots help or hinder in this process.

Thanks

Ramsden

 

[Ramsden]

HD filter in the post! 

We've still got snow - so catch up later this week.

Ramsdeb

[ebiggs1]

OK the first thing to do is get the exposure correct. Your shot is drastically underexposed. That's why I wondered if it was supposed to be a silhouette. If you want bridge detail expose for the bridge. This is simple with a 90D. Aim the 90D on the bridge while holding the SS button halfway down then recompose. If you do want the upper part of the shot in correct exposure then you may need to bracket and stack.

[Ramsden]

Thanks EB

My new years resolution is to seriously up my game!

This afternoon I managed to get the Canon eos utility on my laptop and transfered all last years photographs across and the deleted around 40% of them...Ive got a great camera and must try harder. No excuses.

Thanks

Ramsden

[ebiggs1]

"Ive got a great camera and must try harder."

First yes you do have a fantastic camera. It is the best cropper series Canon made and perhaps the best one anybody made. Everybody started at the beginning. Baby steps not long jump!

[Ramsden]

Thanks EB. You've made me think and go back to square one. My previous camera was (still is) a Canon Powershot SX620 HS which just sits in my pocket - till point and shoot. So I'm transitioning, and really enjoying the process. 

So after your recent feedback I started to think about composition, which then led me to think about the steps I go through when the camera comes out of the case. I have a tripod and monopod + the plug in remote if I need it.

So do you have a procedure that you run through when you look at a scene?

So when I go back to my viaduct (when the snow and ice melt) camera on tripod - what questions would you be asking?

Thanks for your help

Ramsden

[DougsGraphics]

Ramsden,

I have the advantage (i.e., I'm getting old) of coming through the photography learning process over decades, starting with a very fundamental film camera where I learned the zone system. Film and developing were expensive so you had to learn to get it right the first time. (Shoot a wedding on film -- you better be confident in your ability to expose correctly!) I then spent almost 2 decades shooting all manner of subjects with the manual focus film Canon T-90s, which had a fantastic feature -- a 1° spot meter and the capability to measure  up to 8 (if I recall correctly) different points in a scene and adjust your exposure accordingly -- a fantastic way to visually and seemlesly implement the zone system. Nowadays with digital, you have the ability in a static scene to get instant feedback and adjust, but the zone system still applies and I still intuitively apply it.  The zone system simply put is an 11-stop scale from pure black to pure white, and 7 stops from darkest detail to brightest detail, which as a general rule is the dynamic range of most cameras. When you are faced with a high contrast scene, you want to center your exposure in the middle of that 7-stop range. The trick is then to break down the scene to the different zones and adjust your exposure from the way your camera interprets the scene (so you have to understand how your camera does that) to where it needs to be to render all the right details in a scene. That takes experience, but I would suggest that learning that will in the long run help you the most. It will help you to look at a scene and know if you can get everything in one exposure or if you will have to stack images at different exposures, add filters, etc. General composition rules come after you first work out the exposure. As a nature and wildlife photographer, I face complicated exposure situations every day that require manual exposure manipulation on the fly. Here are some examples.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ramsden]

Hi Dougs

Thanks for your post. The photographs look great. What is the burst on that sun set picture - it looks dramatic on my phone.

The Zones concept is really interesting. I was telling EB that Ive just today got a hard copy Understanding Exposure and on P16 he has the roof top parking photo. He talks about focussing on 1/3 rd into the scene to set his camera up. I was wondering how this applied to the viaduct unless because at the moment our favourite place is to the right of centre - but face on. Given that Ive never done any layering before I can see how it works. So Ive got the filter and plan to take a few pictures on tripod focussing on the stonework,.with the filter dark side up on the sky. Then either remove filter, or turn it 180° to capture trains going across ( probably frozen and blurred). Then I have merge them with software. 

Is this correct? So I now have to apply the zones to the composition  before I start - what is my focus point or story. We're in the middle of a cold spell, minus 20°  tonight so Im going knowhere with my camera. Ive got the filter and can see how it works. With the 2 scales do you play around with them in tandem to get the best combo? 

Bryan P has some interesting  views on White Balance - so my heads swimming  now!

Thanks

Ramsden

Hopefully I'll have something to work with early next week, if the snow melts.

[DougsGraphics]

Ramsden,

A few separate (but always inter-related) topics going on there.  First, exposure is setting your shutter speed, aperture, and ISO to get an image that provides the best use of the dynamic range of your camera sensor so that you don't capture important details in both the bright or dark areas of the photo.  Think exposure triangle. 

Focusing 1/3rd into the scene has to do with depth of field, which also relates to aperture. The more you stop down your aperture, the more depth of field you will achieve. The guideline of focusing 1/3rd into the scene is to optimize the focus placement. This works well for most landscape photos, especially if there is not a central subject that is meant to draw the eye of the viewer -- that central subject needs to be sharp and that can cause you to rethink that guidance in certain instances (like an animal's eye -- always need to be the focus point for an animal portrait). Also, the wider the lens angle of view the greater the DOF at any given aperture.

Be careful of a couple things when planning to stack photos.  There is stacking for exposure, and there is stacking for focus.  If you change your focus, composition, or zoom during the images, you can experience challenges bringing them together seamlessly in post.  Keep it simple, especially at first.  

When it comes to capturing the train frozen or blurred, that is where the shutter speed comes in (which cannot be thought of independently of the aperture and ISO -- exposure triangle).  As a general thought process, think of how much movement you want to see in the train and contemplate how long an exposure interval is necessary for the train to move that distance and balance accordingly.  

Regarding the burst in the picture, that is the sun.  That was taken mid-morning with the sun in the photo -- very careful here as direct sun exposure can kill your camera sensor -- at 14mm, f/22, 1/40 sec, and ISO of 160 (Canon 5D Mk 4, EF 14mm f/2.8L II). The shape of the aperture influences the shape of the burst, and the individual elements of the lens contribute to the glare pattern. Note the DOF achieved.  The focus point here was probably much closer to the camera than the 1/3rd rule because infinity focus with that lens is at about a meter.

If you shoot in raw, there is no need to be concerned in the field about white balance setting-- 100% alterable in post. So just take that variable out of your mind for now.

By the way, if there is snow on the ground, you will naturally get more light on that stonework from the reflected ambient!  Cloud cover or twilight situations can also provide opportunities to compress the exposure range of the scene. The trestle is not going anywhere, so you can time your shot (train tables not withstanding).  I have a friend who shoots trains all over western US and he plans his timing carefully for lighting and weather, foliage color, specific trains on specific routes, etc. , just like I do with astrophotography work.

[Ramsden]

Dr Google!

 

[ebiggs1]

Of course without actually being there I can't give exacting settings but one thing that has always guided me is, let the main most important thing be the main most important thing. Focus and expose on that. Do the tricks to get what else you feel is important in the image if warranted.

Another thing to keep in mind is don't overthink the camera or the scene. A lot of the time the camera is smarter than you might think. And, if you have a P mode scene let it be a P mode scene. 80% of your shots will be P mode capable.

Use a tripod when it is necessary and don't when it is not. Again most of the time a tripod is not necessary.

You did mention bracketing but along with bracketing there is multiple shots. The very same scene but with slightly to drastically different settings. Settings that you may think some settings are silly but sometimes, just sometimes, they produce something real. A sample of trying different settings opposed to bracketing gave me this shot of our last comet visitor.