Canon XF605 Camera ISO vs Gain / Video Styles

[SarVinci]

Hello Community,

I would like to know if there's a way to reduce video grain in lowlight with a bumped ISO or Gain. Is there in-camera setting for the XF605 for this?

I've also noticed if I am using video style LOG3 that my ISO is automatically minimum at 500, is this not bad for image quality, doesn't that cause a grainy video?

In LOG3 mode, set to Gain, it starts at 0 dB, is that the same as 500 ISO or lower, thus does that mean little to no grain at all, is using Gain better in another sense?

Is a higher ISO value worse for image quality than a higher Gain value?

Which Video Style do you recommend I use that has the best possible Dynamic Range (for blacks or shadows, and lights or highlights), that also allows me to use the lowest possible ISO or GAIN to reduce any or all grain in my footage?

Final question, can XF605 shoot RAW video? If yes, where do I find that option in the settings to make it shoot RAW?

Your feedback on my questions would be tremendous, as I'd like to get the most out of this camera as I can!

Yours,

SarVinci

[rs-eos]

ISO is interchangeable with gain.  Camcorders typically use gain values for sensitivity whereas photo cameras and cinema cameras use ISO.  A full stop of ISO is doubling or halving a certain value.  Whereas for gain, a full stop is a difference of 6 dB (which I really dislike since for other things, 3 dB means a doubling of power).

Anyhow, for both cinema cameras and camcorders, the maximum possible dynamic range can only be achieved when using an ISO/gain value that isn't at the minimum.   For the EOS C70, base ISO is 800.  You can certainly use lower ISO/gain values (for less grain/noise), but at the cost of lower dynamic range.   For scenes though with low dynamic range to being with, this isn't a problem.

It appears that the minimum ISO of the XF605 is ISO 200 (gain of -6.0 dB).  A gain of 0 dB should be ISO 400.  See page 61 in the User Manual for details.

In terms of RAW, the XF605 doesn't capture that.  See page 53 in the User Manual for details on the two different formats that can be recorded (XF-AVC and MP4).

[SarVinci]

What about noise reduction at higher ISO? Is there a way to get that configured using say LOG3 or do I have to create a custom video profile instead?

[rs-eos]

I don't know.  There are some notes about various noise reduction settings on page 127 of the User Manual.

[shadowsports]

Glad to see Ricky has joined the conversation.  He is an expert.  👍

[shadowsports]

Greetings,

Your camera records in XF-AVC and MP4.  It does not support Cinema RAW or Cinema RAW LT.  Let me do a few minutes or research for the other questions. 

XF-AVC
Compression: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Color Sampling: 4:2:2 10-bit
File Format: MXF
Recording Modes:
■ Resolution: 3840x2160 (YCC422 10-bit)
260 Mbps Long GOP (59.94P/50.00P)
410 Mbps Intra-frame (29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
160 Mbps Long GOP (29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1920x1080 (YCC422 10-bit)
310 Mbps Intra-frame (59.94P/50.00P)
160 Mbps Intra-frame (29.97P/25.00P/23.98P/59.94i/50.00i)
50 Mbps Long GOP (59.94P/50.00P/29.97P/25.00P/23.98P/59.94i/50.00i)
■ Resolution: 1280x720 (YCC422 10-bit)

MP4
Compression:
MP4 (HEVC): H.265/HEVC
MP4 (H.264): MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Color Sampling:
MP4 (HEVC): YCC422 10-bit/YCC420 10-bit
MP4 (H.264): YCC420 8-bit
File Format: MP4
Recording Modes:
■ Resolution: 3840x2160 (YCC422 10-bit)
225 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P) / 135 Mbps (29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1920x1080 (YCC422 10-bit)
50 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P/29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1280x720 (YCC422 10-bit)
12 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P)
■ Resolution: 3840x2160 (YCC420 10-bit)
170 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P) / 100 Mbps (29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1920x1080 (YCC420 10-bit)
35 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P/29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1280x720 (YCC420 10-bit)
9 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P)
(2) MP4 (H.264): (YCC420 8-bit)
■ Resolution: 3840x2160
150 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P/29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1920x1080
35 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P/29.97P/25.00P/23.98P)
■ Resolution: 1280x720
8 Mbps (59.94P/50.00P)

[shadowsports]

Greetings,

Do you have a copy of your user manual?  You should spend time reviewing it as it will help you understand and control your camera better.

xf605-im5-en.pdf (c-wss.com)

Canon introduced CLOG3 (what your camera has) which offers similar performance to CLOG2 in a codec that is not as processor intensive.  When you shoot in CLOG3 the contrast and saturation of your video is reduced.  This helps with file size.  You then have to apply a LUT or color grade in post. 

The questions that you are asking do not have one specific answer since the amount of available lighting and shooting conditions can vary.

Shooting in LongGOP vs IntraFrame.  Basically this.  LongGop captures only the difference between the captured frames.  Less processor intensive, smaller files.  IntraFrame (All-I) captures every frame individually.  Larger files and more processor intensive.  This is a representation of how each affects file size.  The higher bit rates and resolution are capturing more detail.  This is at the expense of file size.  Becoming familiar with proxy recording can help with this.  

Your camera also has 3 built in BT.709 Picture Styles (Normal, Wide, Standard) which can be used during filming to further reduce the amount of post processing required for a finished product. 

Earlier you asked why your ISO was set to 500 in CLOG3.  The minimum or maximum ISO value can be set based on shooting conditions.  The camera defaults to a estimated "safe" value which could work in many shooting scenarios but might not be ideal in every shooting situation.  The camera's processor has some influence here as far as the level of detail it is able to capture "cleanly".  Again, it has limitations and requires your input or decision based on the shooting scenario.   

Manual ISO Speed Gain value.  Think of this like a gamma curve.  How smoothly black transitions to white.  Your options are (L, M, H).  You'll probably want to stick with low or medium in most cases.

At this point, I think I would spend time with the manual and the camera side by side.  Your camera also has built in ND filters which allows you to control exposure with finer granularity with wide open aperture when a shallow depth of field is desired.  The 605 is a very nice camera.  I'm sure you will enjoy it.

[SarVinci]

Hi thank you for responding. I still have an issue with grain or noise in the video even during daylight using low gain at 0.0 dB with Main Rec Format at MP4(HEVC) YCC420 10 bit, Main Resolution 3840x2160, 23.98 Frames Per Second, Gamma/Color Space BT.709 Wide DR / BT.709 video profile. I think the video profile is what matters, but I am not sure. I want to know anyone who has knowledge using this camera, which video settings for outdoor daylight shoot gives you the optimal image quality/resolution, best Dynamic Range, color, and sharpness and noise/grain free video. 

[reynoldss19]

Hi SarVinci,

Have you had any luck with figuring out the camera’s optimal settings? I’ve had problems for a while really trying to get this camcorder to its max potential. Let me know if you figured it out because I would like to know what you did.