Do I need a new tripod head for a heavier lens?

[magilla]

Hello all,

First time poster here, so if I screw something up please be patient.

I've got an R50, and I am looking to purchase a 200-800 f6.3 lens. I've been using a 100-400 f5.6 up to now, often with a 1.4x converter. I mostly hand-hold while shooting.

I have a Manfrotto 190 tripod with a 128RC head that has a spotting scope living on it, but that sometimes gets swapped out for my camera. I've done a lot of birding on the shore in some pretty windy conditions so the weight helps keep things safe and (sorta mostly) stable.

Will I need to replace the tripod head if I'm going to mount the 200-800 lens? I see the lens plate on the 128RC is much smaller than the mount on the lens.

I'd be willing to spend a few hundred dollars on a new head, if I was convinced it was really needed. (Who was it who said a cheap tripod is the most expensive piece of optical gear you can buy?)

Thanks

Chris

[ebiggs1]

"I don’t typically shoot handheld because I can’t do it."

You have to do as what you have to do. All of us are different and have different abilities. It is how I started shooting and have kept it up to this day even at my advanced age.

"Find a good spot and wait for them to come to you;"

Unfortunately the success rate with that method is pretty low (unless you are at the zoo). For fishing you need bait. I suppose you could use some sort of bait but check game laws as baiting is pretty much illegal.  I have sat in a deer stand for days before in fantastic ares and not seen a deer.

[JeffXB]

As others have suggested, try using what you have. You might experience balancing issues with that fluid head though as the 200-800mm is not an internally zooming lens. Just something to be aware of. 

If you do decide to go for a new head, and you mostly shoot stills and not video, then you might want to consider a gimbal head. Personally I use the  Sirui PH-10 with an assortment of lenses, including the 200-800mm. I find it works well whether on a tripod or 3 legged monopod like the iFootage Cobra 3 (which I also use in addition to a tripod) or the one made by Benro; they work good, just don’t walk away from it on a windy day.

If you go the gimbal route, then when you set it up you need to extend the 200-800 to 500mm to get it balanced. Though not super necessary for still photos, more so for video, I also suggest you level the gimbal head as well. Leave it there and you can easily zoom in / out on your target. 

[Waddizzle]

“ Unfortunately the success rate with that method is pretty low (unless you are at the zoo). For fishing you need bait. I suppose you could use some sort of bait but check game laws as baiting is pretty much illegal.  I have sat in a deer stand for days before in fantastic ares and not seen a deer. “

You make far too many false assumptions. I am not always looking to capture birds. I wait for the small critters with four legs to come out of hiding.  

 

 

 

 

[shadowsports]

I can shoot handheld with my 70-200, and 100-500 without issue.  The RF 200-800 fully zoomed is just too long (for me) to shoot handheld sustained.  It's a good 8 in longer when zoomed.  Last weekend I shot with it using a pillow for steadiness.  On my trip to the preserve, I used one of my tripods and had a time of it hiking nearly 2 miles, stopping every 200 steps to survey the shoreline.  🫩

After this, I've decided I might grab a monopod, or do as @Waddizzle does and plant myself somewhere and wait for the birds to come to me.  Nice camping chair with an armrest that has a drink slot for a coffee or cocktail.  Like I need another piece of gear for my photography habit 😂.  

@ebiggs1, I find that a stationary location works well.  Hunters sit in blinds and wait for birds, etc to come with a very high rate of success. Find yourself a good vantage point and you're golden.  Planting yourself somewhere quiet works great in my experience.  Way more relaxing too.

I do have two 120mm lens plates.  These are no frills plates that have adjustable stop pins front and rear so you don't come off your arca mount.  They were inexpensive and work perfectly.  I know Leofoto and Wimberly are most popular.  The gimbal swivel head that Wimberly makes for a tri/monopod is premier.  I just don't shoot wildlife enough to need one.  

My shoot in Pescadero was disappointing.  Not only was it hot but I arrived at 3:00.  Had to attend a birthday party first so we were too late for breakfast and too early for dinner.  I saw three ducks 🦆 no Egrets, no Herons and no birds of prey.  Seagulls don't count.  Wife gave up a mile in.  I kept going.  I realized my mistake about 15 minutes after arriving.  🫣

That and going on a Sunday (late afternoon) was not a good idea.  All three of the preserve and beach lots were packed and you can't park on the highway.  

So I'm going to go back early in the morning later this week.  Should have better luck on a weekday.  

[ebiggs1]

"You make far too many false assumptions. I am not always looking to capture birds. I wait for the small critters with four legs to come out of hiding."

You are probably correct but I don't shoot much in my front yard.

[Waddizzle]

“ After this, I've decided I might grab a monopod, or do as @Waddizzle does and plant myself somewhere and wait for the birds to come to me.  Nice camping chair with an armrest that has a drink slot for a coffee or cocktail.  Like I need another piece of gear for my photography habit 😂.  

I find that a stationary location works well.  Hunters sit in blinds and wait for birds, etc to come with a very high rate of success. Find yourself a good vantage point and you're golden.  Planting yourself somewhere quiet works great in my experience.  Way more relaxing too.“

This is the way.

When it comes to a monopod, you want one at least as tall as you,  makes angling upwards so much easier. I use an alloy monopod by Benro, 70+ inches.  I decided to forego carbon fiber for a monopod because the weight savings were not worth it.

Second get a high quality tilt head.  I highly recommend the Kirk tilt head MPA-2. It has amazing friction control.  The mounting plan can rotate 90 degrees.

I just checked the price, see that it’s jumped 50% since COVID.  At that price, it might be painful, but I guarantee you will be amazed and pleased. Cheaper ones are not in the same league,

[Waddizzle]

“ On my trip to the preserve, I used one of my tripods and had a time of it hiking nearly 2 miles, stopping every 200 steps to survey the shoreline.  🫩 “

I prefer Benro / Induro tripods for one reason,  the tripod carrying case. It is roomy enough to leave ball head installed,

I don’t wear backpacks, anymore.  So, I can wear the tripod case on my back like a quiver of arrows.  All it takes is bungee cord to connect the handles. I use two, criss crossed across my chest.  Not something I do often these days, though. Not since COVID.  They used large parks with large parking lots as drive thru test centers. Testing lasted nearly two years. The paring lots and parks stayed closed for another year,  

[shadowsports]

@Waddizzle  Agree.  I just purchased a JJC case for the RF200-800.  I'll use it cross body and keep a shorter lens on the body for video.  I could have carried my tripod in its case (like you) but setup takes a few minutes and I wanted to "ready" quicker. Both of my tripods have cases that accommodate the head mounted.  This probably means I don't need another piece of gear

But... I'm still looking at monopods.  I'll check out Benro.  I'm also looking at Robus.  B&H has a few with and without a 3 foot stabilizing base.  The base has a tilt head giving you some flexibility.  Not as nice as a Kirk for sure.  Wow, now that's a nice mono head.  

When I revisit Pescadero, I'm going to walk in and find a place to sit.  I'll go early.  This will let me get parking and beat the heat. The images I caught at the Delta 2 weeks ago were early in the morning and dinner time.  I sat and waited and the birds came to me.  It was very relaxing.

I have a nice lite portable chair too, so I'm going to rig myself out and see how it feels.  What made it hard last week was trying to hike with the tripod open.  Some portions of the trail were pretty narrow while hiking down the shoreline sloughs. Even with the legs folded in, it was challenging.  I had a 24-70 in a sling pack on my back.  Finding a good spot and sitting would have been a much better approach in my case.  There's always next time.  🙂

[Waddizzle]

“ But... I'm still looking at monopods.  I'll check out Benro.  I'm also looking at Robus.  B&H has a few with and without a 3 foot stabilizing base.  The base has a tilt head giving you some flexibility.  Not as nice as a Kirk for sure.  Wow, now that's a nice mono head. “

I like the Robus brand..  It seemed like it came from out of nowhere.  I suspect that is a house brand, but an offfshoot from Benro / Induro.  Robus sells legs with only a quick release flat plate.  I have different plates with different heads.  I can go from a blall head to geared head, to my landscape right now with a leveling base.  It only takes a few seconds.’

This the monopod still being sold that I use with the Kirk head. Why so tall?  For one, I am tall.  Mostly, a monopod is stronger when the leg sections are not fully extended. 

[TomRamsey]

Another lens plate that will work is the ishoot , it fits the 200-800 perfectly.  I don't usde a tripod ofte when shooting wildlife, but I did buy an Artcise gimbal for this lens and it works very well.  I have a very sturdy Artcise CF tripod which I bought a couple years ago, so I stuck with them on the gimbal, even though at the time I had to buy it on ebay.  One thing on any support equipment, I think you should always choose equipment that lists a much higher weight capacity than your camera and lens.  

As I said, I seldom use a tripod for wildlife, I think it is difficult to follow moving birds or mammal with a tripod.  But I have the equipment just in case a situation arises.  And I feel people should use what they are comfortable with, any image from tripod use should be pretty good.

North American Riover Otter eating an eel