What do you think of Canon saying "The camera market has largely bottomed out"?

[photodigichick]

"The camera market has largely bottomed out at its current size. Going forward, we expect the professional and advanced amateur segment to expand further and that products will become more highly developed. Accordingly, we expect the overall market to grow from now on. As for DSLR cameras, we will continue to supply products as long as there is demand."

As a long time camera customer (decades), I am disappointed by this announcement.  Knowing that they are changing their focus to more professional which would mean a higher price point.  Having purchased two Canon mirrorless cameras and both being disappointments, I do not have faith in that sort of shift in their production.  It seems they are a follower and not a leader in mirrorless technology.  Not trying to stir up anything as I own another major brand that is mirrorless and it is leaps and bounds above all the Canon gear I own which is substantial after decades.

What are your thoughts on the announcement?

[photodigichick]

I have the R6 and 13 months after purchasing and only 5 months of use (was in the box for the other months due to my illness), it would not focus.  This is a known issue with the model. There also seemed to be an issue with the ISO.  I could not update the firmware.  When I tried to update the firmware from 1.5.2 to the most recent update released in July 2022, I received a gray screen telling me to remove the battery.  Canon stated it had to be returned for repair which was $500.

As far as lenses, the focus would not work with any of my lenses or the EF to RF ring adapter.  To test the focus I placed three small objects on a table outside in the afternoon shade although it was still very bright.  The objects were staggered in distance from the camera.  I focused on each object with the same aperture (f8) using a 50mm Canon prime f1.4.  The same exercise at f22.  The same at f4.  In theory the f22 should have all the objects in focus along with the background/foreground and most of the subjects in focus at f8. At f22 and f8 only the center object was in focus and it was not sharp.  In addition, the ISO was set to "auto" and it went all the way to 25000 at f22 and 12000 at f8.  Mind you, this was in the afternoon on a sunny day.  I pulled out my 5DMIII and did the same exercise with results I would expect and no crazy ISOs. 

What if someone who didn't know anything about photography had purchased the camera?  Would they become frustrasted, think it was them and go back to their smart phone? 

The camera is due for delivery today and I will find out details of the repair in the box.  The technician I spoke with said "focus recalibration" and did not give me details on the gray screen issue other than it was addressed. 

This was not my first run at a Canon mirrorless.  It will be my last and I will probably sell it because of the disappointment in features and the repair which is causing me to question the camera's long term reliability which could lead to additional expensive repairs.

I also have a Sony A7RIV which I believe is superior to the Canon mirrorless. In my opinion, it seems as though Canon is behind in the technology which is why I purchased a Sony. When I bought the R6 I was hopeful Canon had figured it out but I was wrong.

[Tronhard]

I am truly and sincerely sorry for your bad experience with the R6.  It must have been extremely frustrating and expensive and I can understand why you have a negative feeling about it. It seems like you may have got a dud, and I am not sure why you would have to pay for some of the services applied - but I  don't work for Canon and in NZ we have a 5-year warranty that covers a lot more than in North America because of a piece of legislation called the Consumer Guarantees Act that puts a lot more onus on the maker and vendor.   

That said, your experience seems to be a relatively isolated case: all manufacturing processes, despite rigorous quality assurance programs, produce units that have issues.  It is usually less apparent in the optical alignments and far more likely within the electronics of a unit, which is where I suspect your issues lie.   The components that go into a camera come from many sub-contractors these days and, having worked in the computer industry for many years, I know that an electronic component will misbehave more likely early in its life or very late on. I would seem you have encountered one of the former situations. I personally suspect that the fallout from the pandemic has negatively impacted many aspects of the manufacturing processes and am hoping that things settle down in the near future.  

I have 2, R6 units and so far they have been totally reliable, and have accepted the multiple firmware updates that I have applied to make the tracking etc. more reliable - which doesn't do much for you, but I did a straw poll of associates who use the gear and apart from some of the early software bugs that were later corrected by firmware, their cameras were all behaving well.

I am not going to try to persuade you that Canon is a great brand, I suspect that horse has bolted, but I personally think they are neither worse nor better than the others.  If they weren't, they wouldn't have a market.   I have a huge respect for Sony - I shoot with their gear as well, and their use of Zeiss optics is a huge benefit.  My personal frustration is the menu interface - compared to that of Canon or Nikon it's brutal.   The other thing that may or not impact you is the recorded relatively poor weather sealing in many of their bodies.  Other associates who shoot the brand are very reluctant to shoot in dubious weather without extra protection.

All I can do is wish you the best of luck with Sony and hope that the gear you get is able to provide the reliability and results that you hope for.

[sceneit]

It's easy to go into conniptions about Canon doing XYZ, losing money, or what have you. The reality ends up being much more mundane, things continue on as they always have... We as photography consumers should be as afraid of abnormally low prices as we are of abnormally high prices. Apple is not exactly cheap even though everyone says they're so great. A top end iPad is over $2,000. I'm not dissing them, I'm just saying that it is pretty pricey for what it is. Now people buy an iPhone for $1,500 and act like they got the camera for free. I remember many point n' shoots being priced in the $200-$400 range. Oddly enough photography has become the excuse for spending $1,500 on an iPhone, but that was never anywhere near what a point n shoot cost. And a $400 point n shoot was top shelf for sure. Apple has a real racket going because of the trade-in deal, trade in your phone! LOL. End of the day people who have upgraded every year for the last 10 years of the iPhone have spend around $30,000 and have only 1 iPhone to show for it. Let that sink in. And if it's a family that number could easily be double or triple that. I know for a fact that Apple's top customers have spent hundreds of thousands with the company.... for cellphones, app purchases, and laptops.... And now you're crying about having to spend money on a professional camera?? Wow. It's interesting how people come in here to troll Canon and their customers. Why can't the cellphone users, Sony fanatics, etc. just leave us alone for once? 

[ebiggs1]

I like you reasoning on this. I bet a lot of folks don't realize the true cost. However, I believe your figures are a bit off. Perhaps a zero off? The net cost for my last upgrade from an 8 to the 13 was $350 bucks. Now assuming you have to have a service contract anyway (can't calculate that figure in), even if I did it every year it would never approach or come close to $30,000 bucks. Perhaps $3500 but not $30,000. You can't really include the service provider in the total cost of the upgrade because I doubt many people buy an iPhone without a contract since it is a phone and not just as a camera.

IMHO, it is a mistake to call them a "phone" any longer. They are much more than that for sure.

[sceneit]

For 10 years of iPhones, 30k is a conservative estimate for many people. Customers like you are the rarity, plus I don't know how you traded in an iPhone 8 for a 13, I tried to trade in my iPhone 8 last year and it was valued at $100. Decided not to do it. Right now the cost is the service plans which are over $100 a month, for ten years that equates to around $12,000. If I got the top end iPhone every year 20k would easily be within reach. Then factor in broken, lost, and stolen phone replacements, Apple care, appstore, 30k is actually within reason for many people. Not that people don't spend 30k on Canon gear either, they do. My point is simply this: iPhone is not the big happy camera "deal' everyone runs around acting like it is. 

People always cite the "it's so much more than a phone" and that is true. Because it is a mistake to undervalue the software development that goes into it. But I can't help but notice that I am less and less interested in the software on the iPhone these days. 

[sceneit]

And BTW I'm not just picking on Apple, but Android has improved more than Apple has IMHO. Even though I never want to own an Android device of any kind, ever. The irony of all this is that they made the phones so powerful there's no point in Android or iOS anymore. Any one of those new iPhones could run Windows 11. One of the smart things Microsoft did was always keep Windows pretty slim and trim. I remember the latest version of Windows 7 running smooth as silk on my Dell laptop from 2006. I tried putting Windows 10 on there but it was really slow, it did run though... with 2GB of memory installed.

All I'm saying is, it's a lot of money for "phone" if all you really want is a "camera".

[ebiggs1]

"I don't know how you traded in an iPhone 8 for a 13,  ..."

We did it, me and my wife, about 6 months ago with T-Mobile. If you had a newer iphone like a 12 it was a free upgrade. It got increasingly more expensive if your iphone was older. That is where the $350 came in for an 8 to a 13. The service contract has no bearing on figuring this cost of upgrade since you would have it regardless of what iphone you own. Our service contract remains the same as it was with the 8 not counting for the inflation upcharge.

T-Mobile advertised this on TV for a long time. That's how we heard about it and took advantage of it.  BTW, the 13 has a very good camera in it.