Accidental Lens Release

[michaelgirman]

  My 24-105L just fell off my 5D mkIII and rolled into the Seine.  The lens release button is way too sensitive and it is so easy to accidentally unlock without realizing it.  I went to twist the zoom ring and the lens rotated and dropped off.  Blogs are full of compaints of this occurance on mkii's.  

  This is definitely a design flaw.  It's not user error.  The button should be relocated or made to require more force to release  or have a detent position.  

  It's a shame that you have to gaffer tape a $2300 lens to a $2000 camera.  Be forewarned.  

[schmegg]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

I know that I can unknowingly hit the lens release button.  I know that I can forget to periodically check and secure the lens mount.  I know that getting into a flow, can be my worst enemy and my best ally.  I know all of this stuff, so I take precautions.

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See, by saying this you seem to be implying that I don't take precautions. That I don't periodically check mountings and fixtures etc.

You are wrong.

I do check such things. Regularly. I'm careful with my gear and my technique. And that's why this was such a surprise to me.

Clearly, you are not understanding that this has occurred despite all the normal, necessary care and attention being taken. The very same diligence that I have used throughout the years that has stood me in good stead and prevented such issues in the past.

But what I find most unfortunate is that you don't seem to think that Canon should revisit this and perhaps consider it in future designs. My feeling is that Canon have gone just a tiny bit too far with the ease with which a lens release can be acheived. And, whilst you are free to disagree, it seem strange to me that you seem to wish to deny those of us who have experienced this issue from making our point to Canon by calling us 'newbs' and 'careless'.

Good luck to you mate. I'm not a fanboy, so I call it the way I see it when it comes to design and functionality. And, by doing so, I hope that Canon will continue to improve their products going forward.

[lly3988]

One more time I wanna share my DIY experience which may be relevant to this problem.

I have once by accident caused damage to the lens contact assembly of an old camera body. (which may be a 30D or 5D)

I used cheap adapter to mount a Nikon Non Ai lens to the camera body. The AF confirmation chip fell off and bent one of the pins of the lens contact assembly.  I was able to get it fixed finally. (not go into details about this part)

When I opened up the camera body lens mount assembly - removed the outer chrome mount ring and some (may be 2) spacer rings inside, I discovered that the lens stopper pin was loaded with a very tiny and weak spring. The spring is not strong enough to support the pin to lock a lens mount in place firmly sometimes. The release button can easily be depressed with little force causing the lens to be dis-engaged by accident. I replaced it with a stronger spring. (I cut a portion of a spring from a ball pen spring and it worked) I found a big difference then. I have to apply a little more force to press on the lens release button to remove a lens and I found it working very well.

Some may argue that by doing so, the spacers may be changed in position and causing alignment problem. There are engagement holes inside and the spacers can only be installed in the original orientation. Of course, there may be other risk arising from DIY repair. You may drop the screws onto the sensor or break something inside etc, etc. So, I strongly oppose fixing the problem yourself unless you know what you are doing and only if you can bear the risk. If you have a very old camera which you are willing to experiment with it, you may do so, still at your own risk.

As most people suggested here in this forum, send the body to Canon repair facility to get it fix if you have the problem.

My post is just suggesting a possible cause and solution. May be Canon should consider using a stronger spring which I believe will help to reduce chances of accidental lens release.

[Waddizzle]

"Clearly, you are not understanding that this has occurred despite all the normal, necessary care and attention being taken. The very same diligence that I have used throughout the years that has stood me in good stead and prevented such issues in the past.

But what I find most unfortunate is that you don't seem to think that Canon should revisit this and perhaps consider it in future designs. My feeling is that Canon have gone just a tiny bit too far with the ease with which a lens release can be acheived. And, whilst you are free to disagree, it seem strange to me that you seem to wish to deny those of us who have experienced this issue from making our point to Canon by calling us 'newbs' and 'careless'"

I called myself a newbie.  I had thought I had made it clear that I experienced the problem before I was completely familiar with the new camera.  I learned early on that it is very easy to accidentally touch and depress the lens release button.  My 35mm film camera had a spring loaded slide switch, so grazing it was not much of an issue.  But, it was prone to having lenses getting slightly stuck because it was so stiff.

The design of the EOS lens release doesn't seem to have changed in years and years.  The same mechanism seems to be used across the entire DSLR lineup.  I find it curious that you keep confirming the fact that the user unknowingly presses the release button, by arguing that action of the button is not stiff enough, or otherwise too easy to activate.

Perhaps a stronger spring is in order.  But, a stronger spring does nothing to correct the problem of accidentally depressing the switch.  A stronger spring would address the symptom, not the cause, and wouldn't be a cure. 

You're right.  I clearly do not understand how a lens can self detach itself from a mount that is in proper working order.  However, I do understand that even a minor lack of attentiveness is all it takes to initiate the accidental lens release.  Black Rapid seems to understand it, too.  They make and sell safety harness for the Sport Strap, which address this very issue. 

Isn't it curious how this spontaneous lens release only seems to occur simultaneously with some form of human interaction with the camera?  No, actually it isn't curious.  As you have pointed out, the button is far too easy to depress.  For some folks, I suppose that is true. 

[FloydSpellman]

The thing that I don't get is how many posters still think it's impossible for a Canon lens to be accidentally unlocked in spite of how many posts there are here and on other sites from people who've actually had it happen to them.  Or, if they do acknowledge that it is a possibility, then it must be because of user carelessness.  
I shoot weddings for a living.  Usually, if I don't have a second shooter, I carry a body around my neck with another body on each shoulder.  Over the last couple of years, I've dropped two lenses that came loose, one during the ceremony and the other during a reception.  Two different assistants each dropped one lens off of 5D bodies.  Over this time period, I've had a lens unlock but not dropped or seen the "lens not communicating" error message maybe a dozen times.

I definitely agree with the school of thought that attributes this to the lens release button getting depressed by the heel of thumb when switching camera orientation or getting hit by the strap. The locking pin is really tiny - maybe 1/8" long and about 1/32" thick.  The lens just has to move a tiny fraction of one degree when the button is depressed to become unlocked.   
I get paid to get the shot.  I have to be entirely concentrated on the finder and on the finder info when I'm shooting.  I change orientation and bodies every few frames to insure I'm capturing the event from different views and angles to get the coverage my clients demand.  I have expensive equipment.  I've got to trust it.  I can't be checking to see if my lens is unlocked every time I change bodies or orientation.  Before the 5D, I never, ever had a lens come loose.  

I drive an expensive car but I don't check the lug nuts before I go out for cigarettes.  

I don't worry about the lens coming loose anymore because I now gaffer tape them to the bodies.  Haven't had the problem since.  

[FloydSpellman]

Just in case I didn't clearly make my point:

These are expensive cameras.  You shouldn't have to think about whether or not your equally expensive lens is locked.  It should stay locked until you intentionally unlock it. 

I'm not saying make it idiot proof.  Read these comments from guys who've dropped lenses.  They are mostly pros and serious, experienced photographers with decades of experience.  

[RobertTheFat]

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@FloydSpellman wrote:

Just in case I didn't clearly make my point:

These are expensive cameras.  You shouldn't have to think about whether or not your equally expensive lens is locked.  It should stay locked until you intentionally unlock it. 

I'm not saying make it idiot proof.  Read these comments from guys who've dropped lenses.  They are mostly pros and serious, experienced photographers with decades of experience.  

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I completely agree.

And as I stated earlier, I don't think I have a dog in this hunt, because my normal way of holding the camera makes it very unlikely that I'll press the release button accidentally. But it occurs to me that you should also be careful when moving the camera into or out of your camera bag, because that's a situation in which you're apt to grasp the camera in various unnatural ways.

[Waddizzle]

"The thing that I don't get is how many posters still think it's impossible for a Canon lens to be accidentally unlocked in spite of how many posts there are here and on other sites from people who've actually had it happen to them.  Or, if they do acknowledge that it is a possibility, then it must be because of user carelessness."

The thing that I don't get is from where did you get the belieff that some people think it is impossible for a lens to be ACCIDENTALLY unlocked all by itself, without any outside interference.  If you read the thread, the opposite argument is being made. 

The whole argument has centered around has your lens dropped because you were careless.  Or, did your lens drop because it experienced some form of spontaneous combustion and decided it wanted to fly away.  The latter is what is impossible, but people insist that the lens mount has a mind of its' own. 

And, as I pointed out earlier, it is VERY easy to hit the switch if you don't pay attention to what you are doing.  The switch is not in the photographers direct line of sight.  So, it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE to acccidently come in contact with it, but there are those who insist that it is impossible for them to have accidentally touched it.

It is easy to hit the swtich moving the camera in or out of a bag.  I've posted about how I had to have hit the switch when I repositioned the camera, landscape to portrait, by gripping both sides of the camera when it was mounted on a tripod with a super telephoto lens that had a tripod foot. I turned the camera body, and it separated from the lens.  I was left holding the camera body like a steering wheel  I am sure there are other ways.  Those are two that I have personally experienced.

Some guys claim that while they're walking around with their naked gear bouncing off their hip, and it just suddenly drops away for no good reason.  Just maybe, during all of the jostling around as you walked, just maybe the button was bumped as the camera danced around on your hip.  But, they dismiss that possibility as impossible. 

I challenge anyone to hang a camera and lens up in a closet by a neck strap for a year, and let me know if it disconnects all by itself.

[EDIT]  This challenge sounds ridiculous.  Right?  That's the point.

[TheRogue]

I've had everything from early EOS 35mm cameras through more or less the whole gammut of Canon DSLR cameras and this has never happened to me. Further to that, I've never felt that it would or could. But reading this thread, wow - I'm gonna go check my insurance cover in case I have tempted fate.

On a serious note, presing the button and twisting at the same time is required to detatch a lens, so even if the button was to be brick size and the spring as weak as possible, and the user to be careless or stupid or both, for a lens to become detatched in this manner would take a certain unfortunate, unlucky and downright weird set of events.  I know when I am out and about, and I have a £2500 body to which is attached an £1800 lens, I am very VERY absolutely completely totally careful!. (Mic Drop!)

[RobertTheFat]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

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@RobertTheFat wrote:

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@Waddizzle wrote:

With the EF 100-400mm II lens, the tripod foot rests on the heel of my left palm.  Ditto for the EF 70-200mm II lens, which is nearly identical in size and weight.

With smaller lenses, which lack a tripod foot, the lower left corner of the camera sits on the heel of my left palm.  I've found that to be the best way to hold the camera, and still be able to reach the DOF button with my ring finger.

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I find that I can reach the DOF button easily with the ring finger of my right hand.

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I think some of that depends upon the camera body.  The DOF preview button moves in different directions on different bodies, not to mention a being placed in a different location. ...

The discussion has been about the 5D3, and I wasn't intending to push it beyond that. (At the risk of wandering OT, I wonder why they changed it on the 5D4.)

I think you and I have had this conversation before.

Not that I recall, but I have to confess that my memory may not be what it once was. 

[ebiggs1]

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA

"Not that I recall, but I have to confess that my memory may not be what it once was."

While shooting sports, I can't ever remember pushing or using the DOF button.  But again perhaps a faulty memory, not what it once was, but I think I would remembe once at least!