ALO & HTP - Where can I get educated?

[PajamaGuy]

I know, I know - I'm an idiot and not worthy because I do shoot JPG.  There, I said it!  So anyhow, in June on a Saturday at noon, under a cloudless sky, could ALO or HTP help me extend the dynamic range so that the shadowed face of the base runner isn't so dark without blowing out his white pants?

Does anyone have a good source for information on how to use these two adjustments?

Thanks!

[TTMartin]

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@PajamaGuy wrote:

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like most in-camera stuff happens "after" the image hits the sensor, therefore the attraction of shooting RAW and being able to selectively apply what the camera would have applied to produce the JPG. And if it all happens in-camera after the image hits the sensor, all of those "things" could be replicated in post.  (which is why I disagree with Mr. Martin that ALO must be "turned on" to be able to apply/adjust it in DPP)

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That is correct if you are shooting RAW it doesn't matter if ALO is on or off.

Since you had previously stated you were a JPG shooter. What I said was if you are shooting JPG it does matter if ALO is on or off.

[PajamaGuy]

I thought so, but in DPP I CAN adjust ALO in JPGs, and I do not have it turned on. My subsequent question to Canon would be, "Are the same algorithms applied in DPP that are applied in-camera?"

[ebiggs1]

"...  I disagree with Mr. Martin that ALO must be "turned on" to be able to apply/adjust it in DPP)"

He is right. A jpg is permanently altered as the jpg it is saved.  It is only filed in the data tag of a RAW.  Your computer or post editor applies these tag file settings.  RAW files really get very little done to their main file.  You are correct in that the camera can't do anything, and likely less, that you can in PS or LR.  Especially if it is a RAW file.

Personally I don't use either ALO or HTP. I much prefer to do it my self in post.  My guess is none of my buds use them either.

The camera can't mask anything.  It can only shift the histogram one way or the other.

One other word, with LR or PS or PSE the import of a RAW files is automatic.  It requires nothing form you.  You really won't know the difference of u/l a jpg or a RAW.  There isn't any additional steps or anything that will take extra time.  That only comes when you want to alter the photo.  You might want to revisit using RAW.

[ebiggs1]

"Are the same algorithms applied in DPP that are applied in-camera?"

It may be the same routine but you are applying it to an already altered jpg.  The jpg got all the settings you specified in your menus.  Now you import into DPP and do additional tweaks.  Sometimes it may work. Sometimes not.  No matter what it can't deliver the best photo.

[PajamaGuy]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

The camera can't mask anything.  It can only shift the histogram one way or the other.

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So, what then is ALO or HTP, and why have them?  Or could one say that EV "slides" the entire histogram while ALO adjusts the left end?

...and I understand that in-camera ALO adjusts the image and is then a permanent part of the JPG - my point is only that if the ALO algorithm is the same in both the camera AND within DPP one can apply ALO to a JPG even when one hasn't turned it on in-camera.  Of course if the algorithms are different - all bets are off.

[TTMartin]

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@PajamaGuy wrote:
I thought so, but in DPP I CAN adjust ALO in JPGs, and I do not have it turned on. My subsequent question to Canon would be, "Are the same algorithms applied in DPP that are applied in-camera?"

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In DPP 3 you could not use ALO on JPGs it was greyed out. On DPP 4 you can, but, you have to understand that when JPGs are saved color information is lost.

These photos by Michael Reichmann from the website Luminous Landscape illustrate this.

The original photo as taken.

The image pushed from a JPG

The image pushed from a RAW

As you can see the color information in the blue shirt was lost as grey when it was saved into a JPG. In the RAW file the blue channel color information was retained.

[ebiggs1]

"...  you have to understand that when JPGs are saved color information is lost."

 Grampy,

This is exactly my point.  And this occurs each and every time you save a jpg.

[PajamaGuy]

Many thanks to both of you!  I played with an old T3i image I'd taken as JPG & RAW - and I like the result from the RAW much better.

I'm going to be shooting some indoor grandkid basketball in about an hour (and the very uneven lighting in this gym really sucks!) - so I'll save the shots both ways and see what I can accomplish in post.

[ebiggs1]

Remember, location, location and location.. Way more important that anything else.

[TTMartin]

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@PajamaGuy wrote:

Many thanks to both of you!  I played with an old T3i image I'd taken as JPG & RAW - and I like the result from the RAW much better.

I'm going to be shooting some indoor grandkid basketball in about an hour (and the very uneven lighting in this gym really sucks!) - so I'll save the shots both ways and see what I can accomplish in post.

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Be sure the Flicker compensation on your 7D Mk II is turned on. This ensures that your photos are taken when lighting is at it's peak. Many lights pulsate at the frequency of the AC electricity. Too fast for your eyes to see, but, slow enough for higher shutter speeds to be affected.