Upgrading from a 450 XSi - looking at all my options

[Bikemike66]

Joined this community to ask this question!

I have already perused the "upgrading" thread by the bird/nature photographer, and the "new equipment priority" by the swim meet photographer, and gained some knowledge from both. Selfishly, I want to ask my own questions though.

I find myself taking a lot of pictures at my kids' sporting events. In a well lit hockey arena, I can often get some good shots, but just as often I am limited by lighting, and the f- stop of my lens when zoomed in (75-200 4.0-5.6). So my current choices seem to be increased noise with higher ISO, blurred shots, or only getting a few good shots.

I have a limited budget (shouldn't really spend the $$, but probably will - definitely under 1000). With a 7 year old camera (digic III processor), I am not sure that getting a better lens with larger opening at zoom is necessarily the best idea.

I have been researching the DIGIC processors, and it makes it sound like there would be significant improvement from moving to a T3i (DIGIC IV ) alone, but that there is a bigger difference between the IV and V, and that I should possibly be looking at the T5i, especially if I cn get it used or on clearance when the 6i comes out.

Although I would love a new lens too, I am hoping that a faster processor and higher MP (18 vs. 12.2) might be a good investment.

Am I correct in my assumption that the processor and its software alone could be a significant improvement over my current camera ( which I would keep, probably have the 28-70 on there, with my telephoto on the new one- not switching lenses constantly would be a nice bonus too)

[Bikemike66]

I have to balance cost with results, obviously. This is still just a hobby after all. I know the "big whites", I've seen the pros with them and been envious. I suppose an 85 mm 2.8 is an option, but aside from the odd basketball game, i mostly shoot hockey ( because that's what my kids play) and arenas are different. There is a little more light and some of the shots are quite a ways away. I guess I'll see how the new set-up works for me and go from there. Guess I could shoot at 85 on my zoom for a game and see how many shots I either feel I miss, or need to be cropped too much.

I am also hoping for better autofocus with the new camera, although I am not sure if it is that much improved in that regard.

[ScottyP]

The better autofocus would definitely come in with the T6i. They jumped the autofocus to 19 points, and they are all cross-type. A quantum leap for the Rebel line for sure.

As for a zoom lens that will also be bright enough, you have a problem if you are on a budget. Fast motion in indoor light is the biggest challenge in photography, as you need a fast shutter to freeze the movement, but you don't have the luxury of daytime sun to fuel your shutter.
This is exactly where things can get very expensive. Wide aperture on a zoom is hard to do, and it is really expensive. This is why I'd urge you to consider saving money and also getting a brighter lens, and looking at a reasonably priced prime lens with a really wide aperture. The 85mm is f/1.8, not f/2.8, so the light difference is over 2x.

They talk about "zooming with your feet" on a prime lens. Perhaps for the indoor hockey you could "zoom with your seat" and arrive early enough to grab a good close seat. 85mm on a crop is 136 equivalent.

[Bikemike66]

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@ScottyP wrote:
The better autofocus would definitely come in with the T6i. They jumped the autofocus to 19 points, and they are all cross-type. A quantum leap for the Rebel line for sure.

As for a zoom lens that will also be bright enough, you have a problem if you are on a budget. Fast motion in indoor light is the biggest challenge in photography, as you need a fast shutter to freeze the movement, but you don't have the luxury of daytime sun to fuel your shutter.
This is exactly where things can get very expensive. Wide aperture on a zoom is hard to do, and it is really expensive. This is why I'd urge you to consider saving money and also getting a brighter lens, and looking at a reasonably priced prime lens with a really wide aperture. The 85mm is f/1.8, not f/2.8, so the light difference is over 2x.

They talk about "zooming with your feet" on a prime lens. Perhaps for the indoor hockey you could "zoom with your seat" and arrive early enough to grab a good close seat. 85mm on a crop is 136 equivalent.

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Yeah...I know...I wish a T6i was in my budget. That 19 point focus seems big...especially shooting through arena plexiglass..I wonder if it would help there. I miss some shots because of that (although once I have AF for a specific spot on the rink, I sometimes switch to MF.

wrt to the prime lens and zooming with my feet...no need to get there early, it's pretty easy to stand wherever I want..the bigger challenge is that the action can be right in front of the glass, or 200 feet away. Obviously some shots get missed. I will look into it though...I may try leaving my zoom at 85 and shooting an upcoming tryout skate, just to get a sense of how much I can get,  and what it would be like to shoot without the zoom (keeping in mind the f1.8, which would let me crop more later if I was really using a prime).

I do get the premise that the lens is more important than the body, but the current 450D body is 7 years old, DIGIC 3, 12.2, well used...I really couldn't see putting an L-series lens or 85mm/1.8 on that.

Thanks for all the well-thought advie everyone.

Mike

[ebiggs1]

Oh, BTW, just thought, not to disagree with Scotty, too much, but I do.  The 85mm f1.8 would be a very poor choice for you.  IMHO, of course, don't waste your money.  The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens is the lens you want.

Sell the one you are getting with the T5i deal when you can and buy that lens instead.

[ebiggs1]

"I have committed to a Kijiji sale for tomorrow. $500 Cdn for a gently used T5i including lens (18-55), bag and a 64gb SD card."

IMHO, $500 is top dollar for this outfit.  Especially for the lens, that is included, isn't going to be really what you want.  Just so you know.

A bag and an oversized SD card do not increase the value of a use camera.  IMHO, of course.

[Bikemike66]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"I have committed to a Kijiji sale for tomorrow. $500 Cdn for a gently used T5i including lens (18-55), bag and a 64gb SD card."

IMHO, $500 is top dollar for this outfit.  Especially for the lens, that is included, isn't going to be really what you want.  Just so you know.

A bag and an oversized SD card do not increase the value of a use camera.  IMHO, of course.

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Thanks ebiggs. Not sure where you are, but I haven't seen it new for anything less than 650 plus tax (13%) here in Canada (750 more typically) and this is about as good a used price as I have seen (although I just posted here a few days ago, I have been thinking about a better camera for many months and therefore watching the new ads and the used on kijiji). You're probably right though...when the T6i comes out, I could probably do even better.

In any case, I have committed to buying it, assuming it IS in the condition claimed (virtually new). Just as an aside...there is no easy way to confirm the shutter count is there? The seller claims just a few hundred. 

I know the lens isn't what I need for indoor sports, but it is a lens that I will use (I guess I never really made it clear that indoor action shots are just one aspect of my hobby) as I currently have a 28-70 and I miss the wider angle between 18 and 28 fairly frequently (my original 18-55 stopped working bout a year ago). I'll continue to use the 70-200 I have for now. 

I wish I could afford the T6i plus an L series lens, or for that matter a 70D, or.....

Or maybe I could, if I didn't simultaneously want a new desktop for video editing (I actually probably take more video than photos).

[ebiggs1]

"Not sure where you are, but I haven't seen it new for anything less than 650 plus tax (13%) here in Canada (750 more typically) and this is about as good a used price as I have seen (although I just posted here a few days ago,"

I am in Kansas, USA.  Are you in Canada?  The T5i is trending here for $460.  The T5i is availible from Canon in the refurb store with lens for $509.  And that is the STM verson lens.  A must.  That camera gets a full Canon warranty plus they will take your old camera in on trade with the loyality offer.  For a few more bucks off the price.

You are right.  The T5i is going to lose 'used' value when the T6i hits the stores.  Don't know how all this converts to Canada dollars so I may be all wet. I usually am so I am used to it.

[ScottyP]

Here is a good overview of lens choices for indoor sports. It separates the zooms from the primes and gives specific lens suggestions.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-Lenses/Canon-Indoor-Sports-Lens.aspx

[Bikemike66]

Thought I'd give a quick update.

I did buy the T5i used for $500 (Cdn). I put the 18-55 lens on my 450D and put my 75-300 4-5.6 on the T5i. It is very nice to not have to switch lenses...makes me feel like a pro to have 2 cameras each with their own lens, lol.

I have taken a few hundred shots with the new camera: a few at family Easter egg hunt, many more at the local dog park (another favourite locale for my photography, along with kids' sports), and...today..at the arena, as my daughter had a pre tryout skate.

Although it is hard to tell because the lighting in all arenas is different, I definitely noticed a difference in the shutter speeds I was able to use at different ISO settings. For the most part I shot at 800, and tried P mode, getting shutter speeds of 1/250.  I also tried sport mode and the camera suggested an ISO of 6400 (an option I obviously didn't have on the 450D).

I will have to compare to some of the better shots I did get this season with the old camera, but overall I am happy with the new one.