Upgrading from 60D or buy a good glass? Tight budget

[AutumnApple]

I am sorry if this question pop up a lot but I'd be appreciate some recommendation for my case.

I have been using Canon 60D for a while, mostly for my kid's pictures and occasionally landscape or wild animals. 

I got 3 STM lens to cover what i need: 18-55mm, 50mm, 55-250mm. (going to be given 70-300 IS USM II). Problem is running outside with a kid, there's hardly a chance for switching lenses, I found myself using 55-250 most of the time, to get some decent photos of my kid and some room for nature photos but that also mean lots of struggle when wide angle is needed.

Now I'm thinking of 2 options:

- sell my lenses and get Canon 24-105mm L lens for all purposed.

For this, would I gain higher image quality ? Would this still produce good boker since it's f4. I am ok with shorter zoom. 

- or should I upgrade my 60D to 6D and keep 50mm STM with 70-300 IS USM II? 

Would this option yield better result in general compared with lens upgrade?

I had pretty bad luck with third party lenses so I'd prefer to avoid them at all cost. Thanks for reading and I'd much appreciate to hear some recommendation.

[Waddizzle]

I do not know of a lens that can go from wide angle to telephoto, and do it well.  I understand the need for a wide angle on an APS-C body, due to its’ narrower angle of view.  I can understand the advantages to using an APS-C body with a telephoto lens to photograph wildlife.

Those are very different scenarios, which require a minimum of two different lenses.  Maybe, even a second camera body and lens.  I cannot answer for you, but I perhaps some questions might make your choice clearer.  Is the image quality not up to what you wish to see?

What would be the ideal range of focal lengths for photographing the kids in the yard?  I would think your 18-55mm would be nearly ideal for the task.  What you are facing is what I think of as “stuck between clubs”. Your zoom lens ranges do not overlap.  Personally, I prefer some overlap.

What would be your ideal range of focal lengths for photographing wildlife?  What size and type of wild animals?  How far away are the wild animals?  Unless you are in a zoo, most wildlife photographers want a 400mm lens at a minimum.  Preferably, 600mm.  The longer the better.

The EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM is a great standard zoom lens.  It is probably the most popular “first L” lens that people own, mainly due to it being included in high end camera kits.  Canon has recently released a version II of the lens.  If you are on a budget, look for the original version at the Canon Online Refurbished Store.  It is THE PLACE to go for deals on Canon gear, and all of it comes with a one year warranty.

My second choice for a standard zoom would be the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens.  But, it would not work with a full frame 6D, if you are serious about going full frame camera body.

If high ISO performance is not crucial, then you may want to look at the 80D.  It has very good low noise performance, which is better than a 7D Mark II, and Canon’s 45 point AF system, with a Dual Pixel CMOS image sensor.  The 80D can auto focus while shooting video, while the 7D2 cannot.  The 6D has none of those features, but it does have a full frame sensor, GPS, and Wi-Fi.  I have a 6D, and I rarely use the GPS or Wi-Fi.  GPS drains the battery, and Wi-Fi doesn’t work as fast as USB.

But, I encourage you to be critique what you are doing.  Figure out what obstacles you wish to overcome.  You seem to have one facet identified, you’re struck between clubs when it comes to lenses.  But, that has nothing to do with a desire to upgrade your camera body.  That is where you need to be brutally honest with yourself.  

BTW, good glass is where it is at.  Your images will never be better than the quality of your lenses.

[AutumnApple]

Thank you Waddizzle.

The range I find myself using most would be around 35mm- 100mm on my cropsensor, randomly using the max 250mm on my lens shooting some birds or small rodent when they are close enough. That gave me the ideal of 24-105L as walkaround lens as I would have little wide angle without having to switch lens.

The reasons I was thinking about 6d were that I heard it has great image quality in low light situations, plus a lightweight FF. 

I am small female

We do a lots of hiking in the wood where light is not ideals and though I always try to keep the ISO as low as possible, my photos often have heavy noise.

I notice that my Canon 60d produce a lot of grains in that situations. Possibly with some user mistakes too. 

I tried 18-135 IS version and not very impressed, maybe the STM would do better ? After answering your question, I do lean toward the L glass so definely will check out Canon refurbished store. 

[Waddizzle]

Okay.  A focal range of 35-100mm would be a good fit for the EF 24-105 f/4L.  But, if you are hiking in dense woods, then that lens may be a little slow for a 60D.  I would want a lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.8, or faster.  

But, faster standard zooms are above your budget goals.  The EF 24-70mm f/2.8L Ii IS USM would be a good zoom lens to use.  But, I would still want a faster lens, like your EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, which probably feels a little long in dense woods.

When I do not know the specifics of the shooting conditions, I tend to err on the side of a wider angle lens than what would have been ideal.  My favorite lens for venturing into the unknown on foot is the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM on a 6D.  The EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM would be a comparable lens for an APS-C body, which is a GREAT lens.

My second choice for venturing into the unknown, with a full frame body, is the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L II IS USM.  There are a couple of older Canon designs that would offer a similar angle of view on an APS-C body.

My final choices for venturing into the unknown are primes.  Either the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, or the very sharp EF 35mm f/2 IS USM.  I had the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, which I liked better than the f/1.4 version, but gave it away to my son.  I still have a couple of APS-C bodies, and my favorite lens for venturing into the unknown is not a Canon lens.  It is a Rokinon 14mm T3.1, which is fully manual lens, but has a short hyperfocal distance of just a few feet.

Back to your 60D.  There are several camera bodies in the current Canon lineup that would be a significant upgrade over your 60D.  The most significant improvements are in the area of AF systems, and less so in the area of sensor resolution, IMHO.  Canon has come up with a new AF system for their enthusiast camera bodies, and it is a good one.  It is a 45 AF point system, with 27 AF points that have f/8 sensitivity.  The 6D has the older generation AF system, but the newer 6D Mark II does have it.

The AF system first appeared in the 80D, and later the 77D and Rebel T7i.  Out of those three, i have used only the 80D, and it is an awesome camera body.  I would pick the 80D over a 7D Mark II, if given the choice.  If you have a significant investment in EF-S lenses, then the 80D may be worth a look.  It has noticeably lower noise images than a 7D2 at ISO 3200 and 6400.  I would place it halfway between a 6D and a 7D2 when it comes to noise, and leaning closer to the 6D.

I hope this helps.  I would advise investing in lenses that fulfill a specific scenario, and less so for a lens that can do it all.  Finally, high performance lenses tend to be significantly heavier to your current STM lenses.  When walking through the woods , I like to use an over the shoulder, holster bag to hold my gear as I hike.  I have also found that the standard camera strap does not balance very well with high performance lenses, too.  Just something to think about.

[AutumnApple]

Thank you Waddizzle. It's a great help for me as you pointed out specific examples. 

I had chances to try Canon EF-S 10-22mm before and it's an awesome lens. I also love my Canon 50mm STM. 

I just looked at Canon 80D and realized it could be better option for me than Canon 6D. Plus I do like the convenience of swivel screen.

 A little bit side track question,(Sorry if it's not ok to ask in same post) I saw a lot of people posting crystal clear/ exceptionally clean photos, even with cheap kit lens. It's not just the sharpness, it's something that's awesomely clean. Does that have a lot to do with post poccessing or they are just that good?

[cicopo]

I won't give any advice until I know more about how you use what you have. Camera set up has a lot to do with the results. Too slow a shutter speed blurs edges of stationary targets & has a much bigger effect on moving targets. What AF mode are you using? AI Servo or one shot, or maybe AI focus (not available on all models because it's not as good as AI Servo). And are you panning with the movement, with the shutter button 1/2 depressed so that the AF is seeing what's moving as it moves?

[AutumnApple]

@cicopo: I use Al focus if movement is involved. To be honest, I consider myself just past the beginner stage so there's still tons to learn. But, let's say in similar landscape/stationary photos using tripod and similar settings, my photos look sharp but not as clean.That made me wonder about post processing.

[TTMartin]

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@AutumnApple wrote:

@cicopo: I use Al focus if movement is involved. To be honest, I consider myself just past the beginner stage so there's still tons to learn. But, let's say in similar landscape/stationary photos using tripod and similar settings, my photos look sharp but not as clean.That made me wonder about post processing.

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You should never use AIFocus.

You should use One Shot if the subject will NOT move (portrait, still life, landscape).

You should use AIServo if the subject MAY move. (kids, animals, flowers in a breeze)

[AutumnApple]

"You should never use AIFocus.

You should use One Shot if the subject will NOT move (portrait, still life, landscape).

You should use AIServo if the subject MAY move. (kids, animals, flowers in a breeze)"

I must have misunderstood that part the whole time after reading the manual. Thanks for pointing it out.

[TTMartin]

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@AutumnApple wrote:

I must have misunderstood that part the whole time after reading the manual. Thanks for pointing it out.

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No you didn't misunderstand it. The manual gives the impression you can just us AIFocus and the camera will 'figure it out'. The problem is with a moving subject it takes time for the camera to figure out the subject is moving, and if you take the photo before the camera figures out the subject is moving your shot will be out of focus.