Trying to Decide on a new/used camera body.

[jrollf]

Hi Everyone,

I currently have a first generation EOS 7D.  I have always been a bit dispapointed with the hi ISO performance of this camera, and sometimes it can seem dificult to get sharp images from it (there were a lot of complaints about this in the first EOS 7D production runs).  IMHO it is pretty much useless above ISO 800 and that is pushing it, just too much noise in the pictures.  I'm thinking about buying a used/refurbished camera body with budget of about $1,000.  I shoot a lot of subjects wildlife, landscape and travel (including night shots) are my main subjects, but I also shoot Macro, night sky, and the ocasional wedding for family / friends that can't afford a wedding photographer.  Baiscally I'm looking for that mythical perfect all purpose camera on a budget.

Must haves:

1. Reliable / sharp auto focus
2. Excellant hi-iso performance.

Desired features:

1. Full frame (helps with hi ISO and most my lenses are already EF not EF-S)
2. Weather sealed
3. Higher burst rates are nice to have but not required
4. GPS (low priority)

Don't care:

1. HD Video recording (don't care at all, will not affect my decision in ANY way)
2. Wi-Fi (Usually not shooting anywhere around wi-fi networks)
3. "Dual Card" memory slots.
4. Slight preference for CF memory cards, but SD is fine also.
5. "Auto modes"  I spend most my time in shutter or apeture priority, and full manual.  I don't care about "sport", "sceneray" etc.
6. Large size.  I almost always have a battery grip on my 7D so it is already almost as big/heavy as the EOS 1D series.
7. Tiltable / moveable LCD Screen.

In a nutshell I care about picture quality and performance, not all the "foo-foo" features that everyone seems to be adding to their cameras.  I also always shoot in RAW format.

Looking at DxO and other reviews, I'm currenlty leaning towards a EOS 6D which I can find used with warranty and seems to have the highest iso perforamnce/image quality I can find for the budget and the camera is still "new enough" that Canon services and repairs them.  So far the 6D Mark II I have been finding are outside my budget.  I've also found 7D Mark II's in my price range but it looks like the 6D is better at high ISO, probably due to being full frame.

Thoughts?  Any other EOS body I should consider?  I only have one EF-S lens and it is a cheapie, my good lenses are all EF so moving to a full frame sensor is not an issue for me.

Thanks!

[jrollf]

“I'm not sure I'd have the 6D on that list. It's reputed to have excellent low-light performance, but I believe its autofocus system is more primitive than that of the 7D.”

I don't shoot fast moving, especially small fast-moving objects very often, so I’m not too concerned about it.  I do often find myself using 1AF point or a defined small group of AF points to constrain what is focused on in low light situations and even with my EF 50mm f/1.4 lens I find my self wanting pictures with less noise in them.  My personal opinion is anything above ISO 800 is too noisy and I have found many reviews of the first gen EOS 7D that have made similar conclusions.

I’m really trying to stick to my $1k budget, but it is tempting to save a while longer as the 6D Mark II (Refurbished) is about $300 more and provides a better AF system and high ISO performance almost on par with the 5D Mark IV… but I really want to stick with my budget.

[Waddizzle]

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@jrollf wrote:

“I'm not sure I'd have the 6D on that list. It's reputed to have excellent low-light performance, but I believe its autofocus system is more primitive than that of the 7D.”

I don't shoot fast moving, especially small fast-moving objects very often, so I’m not too concerned about it.  I do often find myself using 1AF point or a defined small group of AF points to constrain what is focused on in low light situations and even with my EF 50mm f/1.4 lens I find my self wanting pictures with less noise in them.  My personal opinion is anything above ISO 800 is too noisy and I have found many reviews of the first gen EOS 7D that have made similar conclusions.

I’m really trying to stick to my $1k budget, but it is tempting to save a while longer as the 6D Mark II (Refurbished) is about $300 more and provides a better AF system and high ISO performance almost on par with the 5D Mark IV… but I really want to stick with my budget.

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Either save for a full frame 6D, 6D Mark II, or grab the "holiday package" on the 7D Mark II before it is gone, and gone for good.  Keep in mind, that you are looking at special holiday pricing, not the "normal" refurbished list pricies.

Many reviews say the 6D has better dynamic range than the 6D2.  If you look at the difference in the numbers, then it realhy boils down to splitting hairs.  The human eye is not going to see much diffrence.  But, Canon has managed to increase the number of photosites on the image sensor by 30%, yet the size of the individual photosites has remained relatively unchanged. 

In other words, the dead space between photosites has been significantly reduced, and more of the sensor surface is being used to collect light.  This translates into more detail.  You will not notice a difference until you make very large prints, or start pixel peeping.

If you are shooting in low light, then the only AF point that you want to use is the center AF point.  As a general rule of thumb, in all Canon DSLRs, except for the latest iterations of the 1D Series, the most sensitive AF point is the center one.

Both the 80D and 6D2 have a greater number of f/8 AF points.  This difference can become significant when you are shooting action photography with a super telephoto lens.  For most static scenes, the increased number of AF f/8 ponts is entirely irrelevant, just use the center AF point.

I have used an 80d, a 6D, and a 7D2 for at least several thousand action photos each.  You now can add a 6D2 to that list.  The 7D2 has the most noise, but  that does not mean it produced noisy photos.  Shots at ISO 6400 were mostly usable.  The 80D had a higher keeper rate shooting action photography at ISO 6400. 

Both versions of the 6D were just as good out to ISO 128000.   I have found the 6D2 to have the higher keeper rate.  I have no idea what reviewers are talking about when they knock the 6D2 body's ability to track in AI Servo mode.  The 6D2 is often criticized for having AF points that are densely packed in the center of the viewfinder.  In AI Servo mode, this means more AF points are providing data to the CPU, which seems to translate into better focus tracking.

[ebiggs1]

"In a nutshell I care about picture quality and performance, not all the "foo-foo" features that everyone seems to be adding to their cameras.  I also always shoot in RAW format."

You want the 7D Mk II.  

Otherwie you can listen to guys that simply try to justify what they purchased.  Makes'em feel good to have approval form others.  The 6D may have a 1 stop advantage in low light but the right lens will negate that.  The Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon for instance.  You really need to think of your camera as a system.  Not as a unit.  Sure you can pick out one spec here or there on different models that may stand out.  But what about the whole?

[Waddizzle]

In a nutshell I care about picture quality and performance, not all the "foo-foo" features that everyone seems to be adding to their cameras.  I also always shoot in RAW format."

You want the 7D Mk II.

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I think the 27 f/8 points in the 80D is a better buy than the single f/8 point in the 7D2.  But, the 7D2 is being given away in the refurbished store.  If I had to make the choice, I would go for the 7D2 based on the prices at the moment. 

My first choice would be the 80D or a 6D2, because of the AF points.  The 6D and 6D2 are both very good low noise performers.  The 6D tracks as well as the 7D, IMHO.  The 6D2 tracks better than the 7D2, IMHO.

[jrollf]

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@Waddizzle wrote:

Either save for a full frame 6D, 6D Mark II, or grab the "holiday package" on the 7D Mark II before it is gone, and gone for good.  Keep in mind, that you are looking at special holiday pricing, not the "normal" refurbished list pricies.

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Unfortunatley my purchase time frame is a couple of months from now so the holiday package will be gone by then.  I'm leaning toward saving for the 6D Mark II.

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts / inputs, it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!