R7 has "soft" images

[rockjock]

Hello,

I recently purchased a refurbished R7 body from Canon's site and after shooting a few images, I'm noticing that the images are very soft.  I've seen a few other posts about blurry images and while I wouldn't call mine blurry (they seem to be in focus), they're definitely not as crisp as I would expect.

I shot a couple of images each on both the R7 and my 70D (both APS-C cameras) to compare image quality and, in each case, the 70D's images are far clearer than the R7.  My set-up is as follows:

On each camera, I shot an image of a tree ~200yds away, on a sunny day, using two lenses, each with IS on (EF 24-105L at 70mm and F7.1 with no filter and a EF 70-200 (f2.8) L at 100mm and set to F7.1 with no filter).  I tried to match the setups as much as possible, Servo AF, ISO 200, "Standard" camera profile, center "zone" AF, evaluative metering and RAW.

On the R7, I am using a Canon RF adapter with a ring.  Just prior to this test I did a reset the R7 to factory defaults and made a couple of minor changes, notably changing the file format to RAW, and using the mechanical shutter.

I've been an amateur photographer, using Canon gear, most of my life and have a pretty solid understanding of digital camera functions. That said, this is my first mirror less camera so it's possible I'm just missing something.

On many posts I've seen the (very reasonable) suggestion of renting an RF lens to see if the problem persists.  In my case, this probably wouldn't make sense as I'm very happy with my current EF lenses and if the R7 can't perform with them, it would make more sense to find a different camera than to buy all new glass.

Thanks, in advance, for any help.

 -Kevin

[Waddizzle]

Hmm.  You could have an issue.  Did you turn off IS in the lens / camera body?

[rockjock]

Hi Waddizzle,

I had the lens and camera IS on for all these shots (I know, I don't need it on when it's on a tripod) but I did just try a shot with both turned off and the results look similar.

I did find that there's a camera repair place not far from my home.  I may try run over there tomorrow after work and have them look.  Since this is a Canon Refirb, I'm fast running out of time that I can send it back under warranty if there is a problem.

[Waddizzle]

A Canon refurb body or lens should have a one year warranty.  Be sure to have your purchase receipt and order number handy if and when you contact Canon.

It is good to allow someone else to take a look at the gear.  NO TOOLS!

[rockjock]

Just to close this out, I did have a local shop take a look and they feel the camera is behaving properly.  However one of my lenses is not so it seems this is a combination of higher-than-reasonable expectations and a lens that is getting old.

They did add that the adapter rings can sometimes "click" into place but not be fully seated. They recommended making sure the ring is twisted completely on, even if it does click. They don't believe this is an issue in my case but something they've seen occasionally.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's input!

[Tronhard]

Glad you got a resolution!

[rockjock]

Hi all,

I'd like to add one last post to this thread.

I wasn't satisfied with the idea of there being nothing wrong with this camera as I continued to see this issue and after doing a lot of research, my wife actually found the issue and the fix.

The issue turned out to be shutter shock.  I prefer a mechanical shutter so that's how I had my R7 configured.  It turns out that it's not uncommon, in high contrast images where the subject is at a distance and a shutter speed below 1/250th, for the shutter to open so forcefully that it actually causes the sensor to shake a little.

Looking at my images, this makes sense as the "motion blur" always occurs in a vertical orientation for images shot in landscape.

The fix was to set the camera to 1st curtain electronic.  After a couple of photography outings this weekend, I'm happy report that all the images look fine.  I will admit to being a little irritated that this happens on a newer mirrorless camera, especially since using a full-time mechanical shutter is my preference.

Anyway, we can truly put this one to bed and file this away in case it rears it's head for someone else.

 -Kevin Crow

[johnrmoyer]

I am glad you are finding solutions to the differences between DSLR and mirrorless.

One more difference between EOS 70D and EOS R7 is the number of pixels.

Closer spacing of photo sites on the EOS R7 means that blur will be noticeable with a smaller movement of things in the scene and also that small aperture diffraction blur will happen with a smaller F number.

The fix for the blur caused by motion in the scene is faster shutter speed on the R7 than on the 70D. This is because movement blur once the light gets to the sensor depends on the spacing of photo sites on the sensor and not just the focal length because with closer photo sites it is a smaller distance from one to the next.  IBIS on the R7 will help with camera movement blur.

I would expect no noticeable small aperture diffraction blur on the EOS 70D at F/7.1, but for the equivalent diffraction blur on the EOS R7 F/5.6 might be needed.

The fix for small aperture diffraction blur when there is a low ISO number is a Richardson/Lucy deconvolution or something similar, but with a high ISO number there might be too much noise. This is different from unsharp mask which is sometimes just called "sharpening". In the Canon DPP program, this is done by the "digital lens optimizer". In rawtherapee it is done in "capture sharpening". In gimp with the GMIC plugin, it is just called Richardson/Lucy. Other software might have other names for it. It will also sharpen noise, so one must use fewer iterations if there is more noise.

Good luck

[rockjock]

Hey John,

I wanted to thank you for a very helpful explanation of what's happening with the R7.  Your reply makes perfect sense and explains why none of my previous Canon cameras had this issue.

Take care

[Treeman]

I had the same issue with 100-400ii and r7 . So here is what i found out. I set up a tea box 30ft from camera and shot handheld at fine print side of box while playing with menu. Go to red 5 on menu lense abberation correction set peripheral on, distortion off, digital optimiser off, this last setting will pop up chromatic abberation set to on and diffraction set to on. This gave me tack sharp images of super fine print at 30ft. I also experimented in real world with iso and f stop and found iso 2000 at f9 gave sharp images at distance. My thought is that the lense optimiser might be designed with rf lenses in mind and diffraction is more pronounced in longer lenses so having it on solves the problem, good luck all.