Need help on an upgrade Canon DSLR

[techjedi]

We had the original Digital Rebel and it failed and was warranty replaced with a XTi at some point years ago.

My wife does mostly catalog photography for Web resolutions. She has no print needs, so high pixel-count is not really required. This work mostly includes clothing on mannequins as well as jewelry and bags/shoes/belts in a light box. Sometimes getting really close/macro for jewelry stamps is very handy.

She currently has the EF 17-40mm f/4L USM lens on the XTi.

This camera has served well, but looking to upgrade.

My wifes primary concerns:

- LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT -> I am not an expert, but she is always trying to get more light in her pictures. We have umbrella lights in her studio with high lumen 5000k lights as well as a few other types of inexpensive clip-lights to increase light. Even with these, she is always experimenting with higher ISO and additional light.

- Quick shooting. The XTi when using the built-in flash will frequently say "busy" and make her wait to take the next shot. Have not tried an add-on flash to see if it is any better.

- Lightweight -> she is a petite person and a lighter camera will help with longer photography sessions.

I was looking at the SL1 as an upgrade that is in our price range (550$ with the default lens or without). It seemed small and relatively the same specs as the 60D/T5i and not far from the 70D. The 70D does seem to have better specs than the SL1 but the 1000-1100 price range doesn't seem worth it for her purposes. I think it would be money better spent on a better lens?

Does the SL1 seem like a good route for her purpose? Any lens recommendations?

[Skirball]

I would have thought that flashes triggered remotely from the camera's shutter would have been called "automatic" flashes, but what do I know!

No, when people think of 'automatic' with flash, they think of eTTL.  It's an automated function where the camera determines the power level of each flash.  Manual flash is when you have to set the level yourself. Certain types of photography (those where the subject is always in different locations relative to the flashes) really benefit from eTTL.  But predictable or static situations don't (not that people don't still use eTTL in these situations).  So when things are static or predictable I prefer the consistency of manual flashes.  I'd estimate that I use manual 99% of the time, and I would use it 100% of the time I do what your wife is doing.

- So the trigger itself has no flash?

Correct.  However, if you would like the trigger mounted on the camera to be a flash, they have that too.  They just released a fourth version, the 560 IV, which has all the features of a 560III, plus it can serve as a commander.  And it's only $10 more than the 560 III.  I don't usually need a light on my camera (I don't like the quality of light it produces), and I prefer to have the smallest trigger I can on my camera purely to reduce bulk, so I don't have one, but if that's something that interests you then go for it:

http://www.amazon.com/YN560-IV-YN-560IV-Speedlite-Panasonic/dp/B00PGTOX26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=141...

Lol - now it's only $6 more than the 560 III.  Kind of a no brainer not to get one. 

- Do those remote flashes easily mount on top of a tripod or the same types of stands that our umbrellas attach to? Is all that stuff in the kit or would I need to buy something else to mount them? Are these supposed to just sit on a table or the ground pointing up at the ceiling?

They do mount on top of a lightstand (or tripod), but it depends on what mounting system you're using whether or not you''ll need additional parts.  They will come with little plastic feet, which has a 1/4" bolt hole on the bottom of it, so you can screw that onto a light stand (any light stand should come with a 1/4" bolt attachment).  You can also set the flash with the feet on a table (something I do frequently for more creative uses).   However, the little plastic feet aren't very robust, so I would recommend getting a cold shoe - a metal or durable plastic 'shoe' with a bolt attachment on the bottom.  This is the gold standard in cold shoes:

http://www.amazon.com/ePhoto-Quality-Speedlite-Hotshoe-Adapter/dp/B0082IX6MG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=...

However, I don't care for the screw clamp so I've been considering trying these:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Frio-Enlight-Universal-V2/dp/B00DNADZME/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1418140849&...

The only reason I haven't is that I own an older Yongnuo RF-602 trigger which has a 1/4" bolt hole in the bottom of the reciever.  So I leave those bolted to my light stands.  Even when using the 560 III with built in receiver, I simply latch them into the RF-602 and just don't turn it on.  So I don't use cold shoes much, but you'll want a set with the 560 IIIs.

- for the light box, we have those soft kind where the lights go on the outside and the light comes through the fabric. Would the flashes go on the outside in the same way just flush against the fabric?

Yes.  If you can take a picture of the attachment area where your current lights connect to it I'll tell you what you need to connect it.  Most likely just the cold shoe I mention above.

Regarding batteries, she does photos usually 2 days a week and 300-500 photos for each of those days, so hopefully the battery situation will be okay. IKEA AA seem to be pretty cheap and functional if they will work with this.

You'll need to get rechargeables.   It's more of an initial investment (and you could push it off a little while if you want and use alkalines), but in the long run it'll be cheaper than disposibles.  And they function better (quicker recycle times) anyway.  A recommend a good 8-cell charger like the Powerex or Maha:

http://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-C800S-Eight-Smart-Charger/dp/B000LQMKDS/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1418...

I know, all these little things add up in cost, but using alkalines just spaces out the cost and ends up costing you more.

One other gift I got for this Christmas was a macro ring lite to attach directly to the lens. Not sure if you have experience with those, but some of things i have seen from those are amazing for completely blacking out the background while still fully illuminating the subject. I thought that might work well for jewelry in the light box.

If the ring light doesn't have a passthrough (another hot shoe on top of where it connects to the camera's hotshoe) then you can't use both systems at once.  Which is fine, but something to keep in mind.

Ringlights are only going to work well if you get a macro lens, so you can get up close.  They're convenient, because the lighting is right on your camera, but they're not doing anything this lighting setup can't do.  The blacking out the background is a topic of another converstation but can easily be done with any non-continuous flash, such as these Yongnuos.  You wouldn't do it in a light box though, you do it with nothing behind it and using the softboxes from the side (or above/below).

[techjedi]

Skirball, thank you for all the information. I will inspect the tripods that the umbrellas are on. I am pretty sure it is a standard stud with a edison bulb lamp mounted on it. I think I will have to buy a cold shoe adapter. The one in the strobist tutorial you linked looks perfect, so I can probably go that route.

For the light box, we use these much smaller lamps i believe on dedicated 3 feet tripods. I wil lhave to see if I can even remove the lamp and replace with a different mount. Regardless, I think you have given us enough information to experiment once all the Christmas goodies arrive.

I ordered the standard trigger unit without flash because the less weight seems good and reading your posts and the strobist tutorial makes it seem like most situations it is undesirable to have the light coming from the camera's direction anyway. I also ordered 3 of the manual flashes.

Now my only dilemma is leaving everything packed up until she opens them on Christmas. I really want to toy around with them now!

[Skirball]

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@techjedi wrote:

Skirball, thank you for all the information. I will inspect the tripods that the umbrellas are on. I am pretty sure it is a standard stud with a edison bulb lamp mounted on it. I think I will have to buy a cold shoe adapter. The one in the strobist tutorial you linked looks perfect, so I can probably go that route.

For the light box, we use these much smaller lamps i believe on dedicated 3 feet tripods. I wil lhave to see if I can even remove the lamp and replace with a different mount. Regardless, I think you have given us enough information to experiment once all the Christmas goodies arrive.

I ordered the standard trigger unit without flash because the less weight seems good and reading your posts and the strobist tutorial makes it seem like most situations it is undesirable to have the light coming from the camera's direction anyway. I also ordered 3 of the manual flashes.

Now my only dilemma is leaving everything packed up until she opens them on Christmas. I really want to toy around with them now!

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Very cool!  That sounds like an exciting new journey into flash photography.

I think you made a good choice.  The only time I put flash on my camera is either event shooting - where I'm using a single on-camera eTTL fill flash, or when I do architectural and real estate photography and it just saves me having an additional light stand.  But in real estate photography you're just trying to throw a bunch of light everywhere, it's not like product and portrait photography where you really don't want light coming on-axis with your lens (it makes everything look flat).

The good news is that if those stands were designed to hold your hotlights, they're going to be plenty sturdy for little flashes.  You just have to figure out how to rig them up, but it shouldn't be too hard.

I understand your anticipation.  If you need something to keep yourself occupied I recommend having a read through that Strobist Lighting 101 link I provided.  That link is solely responsible for getting me totally hooked on off camera lighting.  And that way, come Christmas, you can help your wife out setting things up and get some quick results to really impress her.  It really helps to understand the fundamental difference between continuous lighting and flash.  It's what makes flash so useful and opens up a fourth dimension to photography (the other three being shutter speed, aperture and ISO).  Once you figure that out then you can snap off some shots with a black background in a normally lit room.  It's kinda cool to see the first time.

[techjedi]

Wanted to give an update to the thread.

So I was all set to get the t5i, then I found a slickdeals.net offer from Canon's shop where I could get a SL1 refurbished with the 18-55mm STM lens as well as a free PowerShot A1400 for $315+tax and free shipping.

Given that price, I went with the SL1 for now and figure with this much smaller investment, we can go to a much higher end camera sooner in the future.

Also got in the 3 YN flashes and 1 transmitter and messed around with them for a bit. Very cool and looking forward to setting it up in the studio for my wife on Christmas day. It is really astounding how much better than SL1 performs than the XTi that we had. I also setup the software to have the camera hooked to the PC while shooting to have instant preview which will be ideal for the clothing work she does. (The old XTi software doesnt seem to quick preview and doesnt have live shooting at all).

Only thing that really bothers me is why none of these small flashes seem to have AC adapter power sources, they all want you to use external battery packs. Why should we have to bother with rechargables if wall power is right there? But I guess they want you to buy much more expensive studio flash units instead of speedlites, oh well.

[Skirball]

So I was all set to get the t5i, then I found a slickdeals.net offer from Canon's shop where I could get a SL1 refurbished with the 18-55mm STM lens as well as a free PowerShot A1400 for $315+tax and free shipping.

Very nice.  I saw that deal on the refurbish SL1 and lens the other day and recommended it to someone, and that was without the Powershot.  That's a terrific deal that you got, and I think the SL1 should serve you fine.

Given that price, I went with the SL1 for now and figure with this much smaller investment, we can go to a much higher end camera sooner in the future.

By all means, check out fancier cameras if you'd like.  But for the work you're doing you're not going to see a serious increase in work quality without a very substantial jump in cost.  The impact you could get from a better lens, lights, or post-processing skills are far more significant.  I still highly recommend a macro lens.

Also got in the 3 YN flashes and 1 transmitter and messed around with them for a bit. Very cool and looking forward to setting it up in the studio for my wife on Christmas day. It is really astounding how much better than SL1 performs than the XTi that we had. I also setup the software to have the camera hooked to the PC while shooting to have instant preview which will be ideal for the clothing work she does. (The old XTi software doesnt seem to quick preview and doesnt have live shooting at all).

I forgot the XTi didn't have LiveView.  Very nice.  Just something to keep in mind though: you won't be able to see what the photo will look like if you're using flash, since they won't be flashing during LiveView.  This is one of the benefits of continuous lights.  Also, Canon has a weird quirk where some of their cameras will not fire off third party flashes, of camera, while using LiveView.  There are work-arounds for some cameras by turning off "Silent Shutter" in the customs menu.  I have no idea if the SL1 can do this or not.  For both of these reasons I rarely use Live View.  Only when I need really precise focusing.  I turn on auto-ISO so it sets the exposure for the scene, go to Live View and set my focus, lock focus, turn off auto-ISO, and go back to standard shooting.

Only thing that really bothers me is why none of these small flashes seem to have AC adapter power sources, they all want you to use external battery packs. Why should we have to bother with rechargables if wall power is right there? But I guess they want you to buy much more expensive studio flash units instead of speedlites, oh well.

I don't think it's that simple.  I don't know the official answer, but here's my guess based on my knowledge of electronics:  There's a capacitor in the flashes that stores the charge for the flash.  But in order to charge it quickly it can still take a fairly significant current.  Batteries can actually give out a significant current, if at a low voltage and period of time.   Providing such a current from AC isn't so simple.  The signal needs to get converted to DC, and your standard DC converter can't handle the strain of high current.  So you need a big DC converter that can handle the heat generated.  You need decent size wires to handle the current as well.  Put all that into a self contained unit... and you have a studio light.

They do make third party DC converters that can do this.  It's just a big brick that plugs into the wall, and into the external battery socket on the flash.  But that brings up another issue - the flash bulb. Bulbs are known to burn out just by using an external battery pack because it allows such rapid fire of flashes.  Putting an AC connection onto a flash would certainly risk burning out the bulb.  So again, you use a beefier bulb, that can put out more light, and use beefier components to support it, and put in the DC converter, and you have a studio light.