I am a painter. I took a photo of a painting and noticed that the aspect ratio looked a little off.

[jwt99]

The aspect ratio looked slightly wider in the horizontal and shorter in the vertical aspect.  I turned the painting horizontal and took a photo and it looked correct but when I rotated it to upright in digital photo pro it returned to the slightly wider and shorter than reality aspect ratio.  Any help would be appreciated. I am using a EOS 40D camera.

[Waddizzle]

"These are the same photo taken of the 16X24 painting horizontal and then rotated in DPP clockwise 90Degrees.  It looks slightly wider in her face when vertical as opposed to horizontal. It seems that whether horizontal or vertical the width is slightly exagerrated. "  

You are assuming that your display device has "square pixels".  Many display devices do not have pixels that have the same dimensions in both the horizontal and vertical directions.  I cannot say whether or not a camera LCD has uniform pixels, or not.  But, it should not be regarded as a critically accurate display.

I don't understand what all of the concern about how it "LOOKS" on your monitor, or camera LCD, is all about.  Isn't what really matters is how the images look when printed?  Your camera LCD is not color calibrated, and somehow I doubt if your computer monitor is color calibrated, either.

As for your posted sample shots, I think more care needs to be taken aligning the camera with the subject painting.  Your images are slightly rotated from vertical, and could benefit from an alignment in software.  Misalignment seems to have cut off a portion of the image, too, along the right edge. 

Your shots appear to have been taken with the painting mounted on a stand, or easel, and the camera most likely, I assume, has been mounted on a tripod.  How accurately was the camera leveled on the tripod?  If the camera was leveled, how well placed was the painting?  Was the painting mounted on a vertical plane parallel to the image sensor? 

I would think the best way to take such shots, and to guarantee alignment would be to lay the picture down on a leveled, horzontal surface, and take the picture by shooting straight downward. 

I would recommend using a macro lens for this type of work, to ensure sharpness at the edges.  A conventional lens tends to have curved plane of focus, centered on the image sensor.  A macro lens tends to have a plane of focus that is a flat plane that is parallel to the image sensor, instead one that is curved with the sensor at the center.

A set of macro focusing rails would help you precisely align the camera over the painting.  I use a very inexpensive pair of alignment platforms made by Dot Line.  I have used two of them, stacked crosswise on top of each other.  I would also recommend taking these shots while tethered to a computer, so that you can better see what the camera is seeing.

[EDIT] Do a web search for " Dot Line Camera Platform ".  I purchased a pair of them from B&H.

[RobertTheFat]

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@TTMartin wrote:

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I'm sorry the two photos have the same aspect ratio.

The only thing that makes it look a little odd to you is you are photographing it at a slight angle on your easel.

The lens needs to be perfectly perpendicular to your subject or it will induce some perspective distortion. 

Most people wouldn't notice the difference of that little angle. But, your artists eye is picking it out.

There is nothing wrong with your camera.

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I once attended a two-hour lecture/demonstration by a professional photographer on how to photograph artwork. It is a very complex task. We haven't even scratched the surface in this thread. You even have to worry about the direction that light reflects off of an individual brushstroke.

[ebiggs1]

From your latest post I believe the camera is fine.  It is how you are working that is causing the issue.

It is critical to have everything square and perpendicular to each other. Both the painting and the camera. Neither can be tilted or at an angle.  If either is off you will get distortions when you manipulate it in post.  Like rotating it.

If you have PS why in the work are you using DPP?  PS is far better and will do anything you want done.

BTW, you don't need any special add-ons to do this.  No rails, no special lens.  But I would make sure when you shoot the painting leave plenty of room left around the outside.  That can be cropped away later in PS.  Forget DPP and go straight to PS.

[Waddizzle]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

From your latest post I believe the camera is fine.  It is how you are working that is causing the issue.

It is critical to have everything square and perpendicular to each other. Both the painting and the camera. Neither can be tilted or at an angle.  If either is off you will get distortions when you manipulate it in post.  Like rotating it.

If you have PS why in the work are you using DPP?  PS is far better and will do anything you want done.

BTW, you don't need any special add-ons to do this.  No rails, no special lens.  But I would make sure when you shoot the painting leave plenty of room left around the outside.  That can be cropped away later in PS.  Forget DPP and go straight to PS.

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I do believe that the OP has already said that they use PS.  I didn't think it would be appropriate to give instructions for PS, instead of DPP4.  I wanted the OP to see that the resolution of the image coming out of the camera is not as important as it may seem.  That you can specify almost any output DPI and resolution that you want in post processing.

I believe a macro lens would most appropriate for this type of photography.  It seems that there is a degree of precision and accuracy involved, and expected, that is most likely beyond the capability of a more conventional lens.  Of course, they could always spend nearly two grand on "the best lens in the world", or spend under one grand on a macro lens. 

BTW, those focusing rails that I mentioned sell for $20 apiece.  It makes lining up stuff easy because you can see the results of what you're doing, as you do it, right on the screen, or vewfinder.  It would be money well spent, for the time saved.

Precisely repositioning a tripod isn't simple, easy, or fun to do.  It takes two hands to move a tripod, which usually means you make an adjustment, then go check it, and then repeat as often as necessary, until you get it aligned.  The same can be said for positioning the painting.  It would be trial and error, until you get it right, or close to right.

[Waddizzle]

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@RobertTheFat wrote:

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@TTMartin wrote:

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I'm sorry the two photos have the same aspect ratio.

The only thing that makes it look a little odd to you is you are photographing it at a slight angle on your easel.

The lens needs to be perfectly perpendicular to your subject or it will induce some perspective distortion. 

Most people wouldn't notice the difference of that little angle. But, your artists eye is picking it out.

There is nothing wrong with your camera.

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I once attended a two-hour lecture/demonstration by a professional photographer on how to photograph artwork. It is a very complex task. We haven't even scratched the surface in this thread. You even have to worry about the direction that light reflects off of an individual brushstroke.

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I have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize.  My son is an executive chef, and taking photos of plates of food isn't straight forward, either.  As you noted, light direction, its' intensity, and the shadows that are cast are of prime concern.  Light and shadow are used in ways that most photographers use depth of field and bokeh.

[ebiggs1]

"I have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize"

Not really.  He just has to keep everything reasonably square if his last post is correct, ... now!   Go straight to PS and forget DPP.

[Waddizzle]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"I have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize"

Not really.  He just has to keep everything reasonably square if his last post is correct, ... now!   Go straight to PS and forget DPP.

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Judging from the degree of self criticism by the OP about their own work, I still have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize.  Keeping everything "reasonably square" seems to be inadequate.  He was off by 1-2 degrees, which is pretty reasonable in my book.  Everything needs to be done with meticulous care and precision. 

There is a little more to it than simply lining up the camera, and snapping a picture.  The pictures seem to undergo pretty severe scrutiny by the intended audience.  It's just as much a form of art, as it is photography.

[jwt99]

I really appreciate your help with understanding my inadequate ability to access what is happening with my shooting images of my paintings.  It is great news that my camera isn't malfunctioning.  I can't afford a full frame sensor camera yet.

Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. Your taking time to try to explain how I was failing to understand the cause of the distortion I am encountering is very nice of you all.  I appreciate it very much.  It isn't easy for me to adjust to digital everything but I really do appreciate so much about having access to assistance like is available in your forum.  I will attempt to learn more about how to photograph both subjects and paintings.  

I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying.  It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting.  

I suspect I am missing some ways to make it easier to accomplish keeping everything square.  I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting. I have been measuring from the painting to the camera and trying to make certain both are level but keeping the camera in the center of the plane of the painting and perpendicular is very easy to instill error.

I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better.

Thanks again,

James 

[TTMartin]

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@jwt99 wrote:

I really appreciate your help with understanding my inadequate ability to access what is happening with my shooting images of my paintings.  It is great news that my camera isn't malfunctioning.  I can't afford a full frame sensor camera yet.

Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. Your taking time to try to explain how I was failing to understand the cause of the distortion I am encountering is very nice of you all.  I appreciate it very much.  It isn't easy for me to adjust to digital everything but I really do appreciate so much about having access to assistance like is available in your forum.  I will attempt to learn more about how to photograph both subjects and paintings.  

I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying.  It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting.  

I suspect I am missing some ways to make it easier to accomplish keeping everything square.  I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting. I have been measuring from the painting to the camera and trying to make certain both are level but keeping the camera in the center of the plane of the painting and perpendicular is very easy to instill error.

I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better.

Thanks again,

James 

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We are all glad to help.

I just wanted to go off topic and complement your artwork, it is fantastic. And if your wife was the model she is adorable. 

[Waddizzle]

"Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. "

You're welcome.

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"It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting. " 

When you said 16x20 I was thinking of a table, not the floor.  They do sell tripods with center columns that tilt away from vertical, as well as, extension arms that mount on the  tripod and extend outward a foot or more, with a tripod head on the end.

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"I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying."

I know very little about the subject.  Try a web search.  However, I see strong similarities between what you're doing with paintings, and how people today take archive old photos by photographing them, instead of scanning them.

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"It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting. "

Lighting control is obviously crucial.  I'd say go to Home Depot, and get creative.  They sell fairly sturdy, modular shelving units, brackets, 2x4s, etc.  Make a rig to hold pictures vertically, instead of tilted on an easel or stand.  Now lighting is a whole new can of worms, for which I can offer little advice.  They do sell LED lights that can emit various types of light, but they are costly.  I would guess multiple, plain light sources are better than one fancy one, though.

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" I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting."

The Dot Line camera platforms would give you fine control in along one, or two, axis.  They would be very useful if the camera were pointed straight down.   If the center column were pointed downward, then the platforms give you control on the side to side, and front to back axis, along the X and Y axis.  The camera would pointed straight down, along the Z-axis. 

In other words, the platforms would be useful if the center column were pointed at the artwork, or if you used a tripod extension arm that was pointed at the artwork, when the artwork were mounted vertically.  However, as you read about macro shooting, you will learn how to use macro rails, and they could help you achieve critically fine focus adjustments.  Turning the focus ring will only give you a coarse focus adjustment with most lenses.  Changing the distance between the camera to the subject will give you fine control over focus.

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"I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better." 

I have used image editing software for nearly three decades.  I have found Lightroom to be more useful for simply getting the photos out of the camera, and saved somewhere, but with some tweaking for white balance, exposure, noise reduction, etc.  Photoshop is most useful to me if I want to go in and do some damage, and really operate on a photograph.  Most of the time I use just Lightroom.  I use Photoshop for those special cases where I want to repair, change, or modify something in the image.  I have also found LR to be easier to use than PS, and requires less artistic talent to use effectively.