I am a painter. I took a photo of a painting and noticed that the aspect ratio looked a little off.

[jwt99]

The aspect ratio looked slightly wider in the horizontal and shorter in the vertical aspect.  I turned the painting horizontal and took a photo and it looked correct but when I rotated it to upright in digital photo pro it returned to the slightly wider and shorter than reality aspect ratio.  Any help would be appreciated. I am using a EOS 40D camera.

[ebiggs1]

"I have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize"

Not really.  He just has to keep everything reasonably square if his last post is correct, ... now!   Go straight to PS and forget DPP.

[Waddizzle]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

"I have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize"

Not really.  He just has to keep everything reasonably square if his last post is correct, ... now!   Go straight to PS and forget DPP.

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Judging from the degree of self criticism by the OP about their own work, I still have no doubt that it is more complex than any of us may realize.  Keeping everything "reasonably square" seems to be inadequate.  He was off by 1-2 degrees, which is pretty reasonable in my book.  Everything needs to be done with meticulous care and precision. 

There is a little more to it than simply lining up the camera, and snapping a picture.  The pictures seem to undergo pretty severe scrutiny by the intended audience.  It's just as much a form of art, as it is photography.

[jwt99]

I really appreciate your help with understanding my inadequate ability to access what is happening with my shooting images of my paintings.  It is great news that my camera isn't malfunctioning.  I can't afford a full frame sensor camera yet.

Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. Your taking time to try to explain how I was failing to understand the cause of the distortion I am encountering is very nice of you all.  I appreciate it very much.  It isn't easy for me to adjust to digital everything but I really do appreciate so much about having access to assistance like is available in your forum.  I will attempt to learn more about how to photograph both subjects and paintings.  

I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying.  It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting.  

I suspect I am missing some ways to make it easier to accomplish keeping everything square.  I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting. I have been measuring from the painting to the camera and trying to make certain both are level but keeping the camera in the center of the plane of the painting and perpendicular is very easy to instill error.

I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better.

Thanks again,

James 

[TTMartin]

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@jwt99 wrote:

I really appreciate your help with understanding my inadequate ability to access what is happening with my shooting images of my paintings.  It is great news that my camera isn't malfunctioning.  I can't afford a full frame sensor camera yet.

Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. Your taking time to try to explain how I was failing to understand the cause of the distortion I am encountering is very nice of you all.  I appreciate it very much.  It isn't easy for me to adjust to digital everything but I really do appreciate so much about having access to assistance like is available in your forum.  I will attempt to learn more about how to photograph both subjects and paintings.  

I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying.  It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting.  

I suspect I am missing some ways to make it easier to accomplish keeping everything square.  I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting. I have been measuring from the painting to the camera and trying to make certain both are level but keeping the camera in the center of the plane of the painting and perpendicular is very easy to instill error.

I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better.

Thanks again,

James 

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We are all glad to help.

I just wanted to go off topic and complement your artwork, it is fantastic. And if your wife was the model she is adorable. 

[Waddizzle]

"Waddizzle. TTMartin and  Robert the Fat.   You have all  been very kind and helpful. "

You're welcome.

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"It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting. " 

When you said 16x20 I was thinking of a table, not the floor.  They do sell tripods with center columns that tilt away from vertical, as well as, extension arms that mount on the  tripod and extend outward a foot or more, with a tripod head on the end.

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"I would very much like to know if there is a reference  how to photograph paintings successfully to submit  to show jurying."

I know very little about the subject.  Try a web search.  However, I see strong similarities between what you're doing with paintings, and how people today take archive old photos by photographing them, instead of scanning them.

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"It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting. "

Lighting control is obviously crucial.  I'd say go to Home Depot, and get creative.  They sell fairly sturdy, modular shelving units, brackets, 2x4s, etc.  Make a rig to hold pictures vertically, instead of tilted on an easel or stand.  Now lighting is a whole new can of worms, for which I can offer little advice.  They do sell LED lights that can emit various types of light, but they are costly.  I would guess multiple, plain light sources are better than one fancy one, though.

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" I will definately look into getting the dot line platform and probably will try to set up a more easy assurance of perpendicular camera and painting."

The Dot Line camera platforms would give you fine control in along one, or two, axis.  They would be very useful if the camera were pointed straight down.   If the center column were pointed downward, then the platforms give you control on the side to side, and front to back axis, along the X and Y axis.  The camera would pointed straight down, along the Z-axis. 

In other words, the platforms would be useful if the center column were pointed at the artwork, or if you used a tripod extension arm that was pointed at the artwork, when the artwork were mounted vertically.  However, as you read about macro shooting, you will learn how to use macro rails, and they could help you achieve critically fine focus adjustments.  Turning the focus ring will only give you a coarse focus adjustment with most lenses.  Changing the distance between the camera to the subject will give you fine control over focus.

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"I suspect I could do more with Photoshop if I understood the program better." 

I have used image editing software for nearly three decades.  I have found Lightroom to be more useful for simply getting the photos out of the camera, and saved somewhere, but with some tweaking for white balance, exposure, noise reduction, etc.  Photoshop is most useful to me if I want to go in and do some damage, and really operate on a photograph.  Most of the time I use just Lightroom.  I use Photoshop for those special cases where I want to repair, change, or modify something in the image.  I have also found LR to be easier to use than PS, and requires less artistic talent to use effectively.

[jwt99]

Waddizzle  My largest difficulty is in not having enough space in my studio to devote an area to a well squared system of photographing paintings but I am working on obtaining a larger area to paint.

I have the LR4.4, Illustrator and PSCS6 and Perfect Photo One  They are very helpful to archive and use image components to compose more narrative paintings.  But I have only been using them a few years and my knowledge of what is possible with them is sadly limited.  I am over 60 and just don't grasp new concepts as well as most people do.

I was amazed that the measuring and leveling that I do isn't adequate to keep angular distortion from being apparent.  

I will be more careful and use more points of reference to ensure the painting and camera are perpendicular and centered.

Your information has been hugely helpful.  

I will be watching for your posts and try to learn more about improving my photography skills.  

[jwt99]

TTMartin Thanks for your mention of my work and wife. My children and family are often subjects for my paintings.  I had a career in the health care industry until I had a brain aneurysm and stroke and status/post craniotomy/aneurysm repair I was not able to resume that career.  Painting and photography were hobbies that I have attempted to expand in retirement. I have much better painting skills than photography skills and that is a serious handicap.  Your willingness to assist in this problem was a real lifesaver.  I don't have much budget for camera equipment and when the Canon technician suggested this was a camera sensor issue I was very concerned that I would be using a much lower quality camera for awhile.

You were able to explain what was going on very clearly with a lot of valuable information as to how to minimize the problem in future painting submissions.

Thanks again,

James

[jwt99]

ebigs1  Thanks you for your very clear understanding of what was going wrong with my photographing  paintings.  I very much appreciate your help.  I will certainly work to make my camera and painting square and perpendicular.  I will do more measuring.  And I am learning more PS strategies to manage the whole process.

Thanks,

James

[ebiggs1]

James,

One last thought.  All the advice and suggestions, good or bad, are really not as important as knowing this, you have all you need to accomplish what you desire.  Your gear and PS will do the job.

Keep everything as square and perpendicular as you can and crop in PS.  Make sure you shoot with plenty of room around the outside of the painting to leave room for later cropping. Actually this is a good idea and standard practice in the professional photographic world.

Don't try to, or let people talk you into, make this more difficult that it is.

[Waddizzle]

"It is very difficult to put a painting on the floor or outside and not substantially change the lighting thereby dramatically altering the color and white balance of the image.  If I place the painting on the floor it is difficult not to have shadows on the painting especially if it is a large painting. "

White balance.  I had forgotten to mention white balance.  Do a little research on the web. No doubt, this is crucial for you.

For precise white balance and color control of the images, you will at least need a standard, neutral grey card for starters, so that you can document the light conditions when the shots are taken, so that you can use a custom white balance setting in post processing.  Place a grey card where the painting will be located, so that the card receives the same light as the painting would, and take a picture of it.  Custom white balance can be implemented in your camera, but I never bother with that, anymore.  Applying custom white balance in post is much easier, and far more flexible.

When you are editing photos, there are color calibration systems for computer monitors out there, which seem way too expensive IMHO.  Basically, if you're not using a sizeable color monitor that costs as much as a downpayment on an automobile, then you will get limited benefit from buying one of those color calibration systems.  I have no use for it. 

Monitor color calibration systems are most useful to people who may shoot similar stuff, but with different cameras and lenses, and wish to have highly repeatable results.  In films, this is one small part of the production designer's job.  Making sure that what will be shot today, will look exactly like what was shot yesterday, or will be shot tomorrow.