Horizontal lines in outdoor with natural light (electronic shutter EOS R7)

[Jowe79]

Hello, I have been shooting outdoors in natural sunlight this morning with the electronic shutter with the EOS R7 + EF-S 18-135 nano USM... and I notice although it is very subtle, but there are some kind of horizontal stripes or bands in clear areas of the blue sky like the photo attached here. I couldn't tell if it does it at low or high shutter speeds... but it is natural light (NOT LED OR ARTIFICIAL LIGHT) could it be some small effect of the electronic shutter? it's like noise in the form of horizontal bands... With a mechanical shutter or EFCS this problem disappears completely... Is it normal? Thanks.

 

Hi i attached another crop of the lines and cr3 original file in google drive... It happens too with my rf-s 10-18 stm... Only happens in bright zones...(White clouds or skies) Only in Electronic shutter... It seems with isos up more than 100 the horizontal lines disappears...a little bit more... Is normal with electronic shutter? Insists...only happens in ES... WITH mechanical or EFCS i haven't the issue....sometimes i saw this lines in bright zones other times...i not see the lines...is very strange ...i saw other posts and people ocurrs the same issue ...i can see in LCD screen of my EOS R7 and lightroom mobile when upload the cr3 in LIGHTROOM MOBILE....THOUGHTS???

I attached the original CR3 FILE in Google Drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mCoQyNhSGytwfBQiWa2x980j6t5GkLAe/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[karmlol]

They are there, I see them on my monitor if I look closely. It may depend on your monitor. Here's the same image you posted but with gamma lowered and brightness increased, just to show that they're there.

[Jowe79]

Your jpg is degrated with artefacts...can you share your edited jpg with no compression???

[Jowe79]

Insists ...the lines exists ...in my LCD Screen of my R7 can be the lines with zoom in....so...the lines exists....and i would like know why? Any expert can be something more?

[Peter]

Yes, they are there even in DPP. Easier to see them when using the picture style Fine Detail, unsharp mask and the setting Prioritize speed. I have already answered you with my own raw sample at Dpreview.

[karmlol]

Hello,

I've imported your file into Lightroom, and I do also see the lines. They seem to occur every 4px (I counted 10 lines in ~40px) and seem to be about 2 pixels tall. It shares some mild resemblance to something I noticed in one single photo on my R3. That looked like this:

In my case however, the bands were 12 rows 'tall' (wide in this image, because it was in portrait mode), and were only showing up in an area where there was a RAPID change of brightness in the scene from a CO2 'explosion'. In all previous and subsequent photos, I never saw anything like it.

In my case, they were bands caused by or related to the parallel readout of the sensor. I'm not sure if the R7 sensor readout works in bands of 2 pixels, but seeing this kind of artifact in stationary scenes with consistent lighting doesn't seem normal to me. There may be some electronics level issue with some of the parallel readout coming out darker than it should in bands of 2 compared to others, maybe the resistance being a bit too low or too high or something weird.

I honestly have no idea how those circuits work, I'm not an expert, but this definitely looks like it has to do with the parallel readout somehow, or possibly with the processing (Lightroom specific?) and seeing this kind of consistent deviation purely brightness level based, not movement based, with a non-flashing light source, is very weird to me.

This is a lower part of your cloud, exposure and such tweaked just to show the lines more clearly.

[Jowe79]

Thanks a lot...in your R3? but...then...i think that issue is a limitation of electronic shutter...I would like to emphasize that with electronic shutter this problem of lines never happens...do I have to worry much then? In your R3, which is a very expensive and more advanced camera, would it also be something "limiting" with electronic shutters?

[Jowe79]

Thanks, 

Finally someone who has understood me and believes what I'm saying... the million dollar question... Is this normal with an electronic shutter? Should I change the camera because of that? They don't always come out... in photos without high lights those lines don't come out... and in EFCS or mechanical shutter neither...

Thanks, if you want you can continue investigating.

[karmlol]

My photo was taken with electronic shutter. If it's related to the parallel readout, then yes, that is linked to the electronic shutter. The physical shutter uses physical barriers for the exposure, whereas the electronic shutter relies purely on readout timings.

The R3 example I gave was 1 image out of MANY tens of thousands which did not have any visible banding. It was ONLY in that one image, of an extremely fast event (mini gas explosion), where I noticed it. Banding like you are seeing in static objects does NOT (to me) appear normal, and I would almost expect a different R7 to not have that issue.

If you can reliably reproduce the issue when taking photos of an object of a specific brightness, then maybe try to reproduce it in the store you bought yours from, and try it with a spare R7 if they have one. If it's not happening in another R7 body, then it's probably an issue you should seek out warranty for.

[FloridaDrafter]

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@Jowe79 wrote:

Finally someone who has understood me and believes what I'm saying... 

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It's not that I, or anyone else, didn't believe you or understand! It was obvious in the images you posted. I showed you that, when processed properly, they [noisy lines] were not evident or at least not relevant to the overall image. When you zoom in to non-realistic proportions, you will see stuff like that, particularly when you use high amounts of sharpening.

Newton