Compare photos - Is lack of sharpness because of camera or lens?

[Brad]

Since I've had my 6d (about 2 years) I've said the photos were not that sharp. On a recent trip, comparing photos from my 6d with 24-105L, and my friend's 5D mk3 with 24-70L 2.8 it was once again really obvious.

My question is, are my photos less sharp than his because his camera is better? Or is it that the 24-70 2.8 is that much sharper of a lens? Or is it maybe that my camera or lens has something out of adjustment? I've experimented with every setting I can think of on my camera and it doesn't help.

It seems to me that the IQ of both cameras should be pretty similar, and from what I read the 2 lenses don't have any appreciable difference in sharpness, so I am just not sure why my photos are consistently less sharp and "real" looking than his.

My shot with the 6d and 24-105L

His shot with the 5d mk 3 and 24-70L 2.8

I really notice the difference on the deails of the fabric of my black jacket.

His photos are taken in L fine size jpg and mine are M fine jpg (sharpness set to max.) Yes the file sizes are different but I wouldn't expect that to affect the IQ. Another note, (I had to crop his photo in photoshop to get under the 5mb file upload size and that seems to have reduced its IQ a bit.)

Thanks for any ideas anyone might have!

[ebiggs1]

The thing to take from all this is, like I said earlier it is P-Mpix on subject.  It doesn't matter whether it is the 24-105mm vs the 24-70mm or AI-focus vs One shot or even jpg vs RAW.  He is simply putting more P-Mpix on subject.

When you do that, too, you will be happy with the results with your 6D.

[TCampbell]

---

@Brad wrote:

Do you happen to know of any good books or instructions on how to work with RAW and LR? (Or even LR in general.)

---

I'm still on Aperture (Lightroom's competitor) but Apple announced that they no longer intend to further development of Aperture, so I'll have to swtich.  But that also means I'm not a good person to ask for book or tutorial recommendations becuase I'm not a regular Lightroom user.

In general, Lightroom does have a "left to right" and "top to bottom" user interface in terms of how they lay out the adjustments.  In other words, when you are in their "develop" module (that's the module that allows you to apply all the sorts of adjustments you might do in a real darkroom working with film and prints... exposure, saturation, dodge & burn, etc. etc.)  they suggest you apply your changes in a top-to-bottom order.  

You could use *any* order (the software will let you) but they caution that some adjustments will affect the look of others.  For example, you wouldn't want to fuss with specific color adjustments until AFTER you've white-balanced the image... white balancing after adjusting other colors would throw off the accuracy of the color adjustments and you'd have to go back and re-work the color.    For this reason, they lay out the order of the adjustments so that if you work from top to bottom, then you're less likely to have to go back and re-work anything you've already done.

JPEG processing will apply white balance, edge-detection and sharpening, de-noising, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about.  The camera profile will apply some things as a default (e.g. the amount of color saturation they think will probably be required based on the camera you use, etc.)  In camera JPEG would also apply color profiles.

Since just about every RAW needs to have these applied.

Apple's camera profiles include things like sharpening and other image-quality adjustments.  I noticed that Adobe's profiles seem to be mostly about the color interpretation.  Oddly... while I mentioned the top-to-bottom workflow, I noticed Adobe puts the camera profile at the bottom.  I think it really belongs at the top... the very top.  You should probably start by making sure the profile for your specific camera is applied as a baseline and then start adjusting from there.

[Brad]

---

@ebiggs1 wrote:

The thing to take from all this is, like I said earlier it is P-Mpix on subject.  It doesn't matter whether it is the 24-105mm vs the 24-70mm or AI-focus vs One shot or even jpg vs RAW.  He is simply putting more P-Mpix on subject.

When you do that, too, you will be happy with the results with your 6D.

---

Got it. I set my jpeg to large fine (I assume that's what you meant by "He is simply putting more P-Mpix on subject") and some of the other suggestions so I will see how much that helps. I appreciate all of your suggestions and comments to help me out.

[Brad]

---

@TCampbell wrote:

---

@Brad wrote:

Do you happen to know of any good books or instructions on how to work with RAW and LR? (Or even LR in general.)

---

I'm still on Aperture (Lightroom's competitor) but Apple announced that they no longer intend to further development of Aperture, so I'll have to swtich.  But that also means I'm not a good person to ask for book or tutorial recommendations becuase I'm not a regular Lightroom user.

In general, Lightroom does have a "left to right" and "top to bottom" user interface in terms of how they lay out the adjustments.  In other words, when you are in their "develop" module (that's the module that allows you to apply all the sorts of adjustments you might do in a real darkroom working with film and prints... exposure, saturation, dodge & burn, etc. etc.)  they suggest you apply your changes in a top-to-bottom order.  

You could use *any* order (the software will let you) but they caution that some adjustments will affect the look of others.  For example, you wouldn't want to fuss with specific color adjustments until AFTER you've white-balanced the image... white balancing after adjusting other colors would throw off the accuracy of the color adjustments and you'd have to go back and re-work the color.    For this reason, they lay out the order of the adjustments so that if you work from top to bottom, then you're less likely to have to go back and re-work anything you've already done.

JPEG processing will apply white balance, edge-detection and sharpening, de-noising, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about.  The camera profile will apply some things as a default (e.g. the amount of color saturation they think will probably be required based on the camera you use, etc.)  In camera JPEG would also apply color profiles.

Since just about every RAW needs to have these applied.

Apple's camera profiles include things like sharpening and other image-quality adjustments.  I noticed that Adobe's profiles seem to be mostly about the color interpretation.  Oddly... while I mentioned the top-to-bottom workflow, I noticed Adobe puts the camera profile at the bottom.  I think it really belongs at the top... the very top.  You should probably start by making sure the profile for your specific camera is applied as a baseline and then start adjusting from there.

---

Good stuff. I have a lot to learn about digital photo processing I guess. I've been pretty happy with what I've been able to accomplish with jpegs in lightroom so I'll have to learn how to work with RAW too. Thanks for your help Tim.

[ebiggs1]

Great! Have a safe trip.  Take lot's of pictures and have a very happy holiday season.  

[Brad]

By the way...someone sent me a private message, I asume regarding this thread. The icon is there with the "1 Unread" message but I click on it and nothing happens. I have tried on 2 differnt computers with 3 different web browsers (firefox, chrome, and internet explorer) and it doesn't work with any of them so I assume this is a glitch in the canon site. Hopefully someday I will be able to read your message! I just wanted to let the person know that here so they don't think I'm ignoring them. Thanks again.

[ebiggs1]

Not surprising.  This web site has several "glitches" in it.  

[TCampbell]

I noticed I can't just go into the private message feature of the website... its like the link is dead. 

BUT... I have learned a work-around.

If you select the name of another member in the computer (to bring up their profile) you'll find a link to send that user a private message.  Click that link and it'll put you into the messaging feature of the site to allow you to compose our message.  But if you look above the composition window, there are other tabs, and one of them is your "Inbox" tab.  That should let you get into your inbox.  

So far that's the only way I've found to trick the system into letting me into the private message feature.

[Brad]

---

@TCampbell wrote:

I noticed I can't just go into the private message feature of the website... its like the link is dead. 

BUT... I have learned a work-around.

If you select the name of another member in the computer (to bring up their profile) you'll find a link to send that user a private message.  Click that link and it'll put you into the messaging feature of the site to allow you to compose our message.  But if you look above the composition window, there are other tabs, and one of them is your "Inbox" tab.  That should let you get into your inbox.  

So far that's the only way I've found to trick the system into letting me into the private message feature.

---

Yep that worked. I appreciate it!

[Aldente]

Pardon my intrusion, Scott, and this is a side note...

I was looking over this old thread and I noticed that it was posted on December 16 2014 and your reply came the next day, Dec. 17, 2014, hence my question:

It was announced on 25 August 2016 that Canon was coming out with 5D Mark IV and that it would be available in retail in September 2016how.

So, how is it that your listed equipment in 2014 featured 5DMk4, when it would be coming out and became available to public only 2 years later and the equipment list in the threads, I believe, is not a dynamic function and doesn't get updated once it is posted in a thread? In other words, your shown equipment list IS from 2014.

Just asking...

Tx.