cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

6D MKII a disappointment???

skyking
Contributor

I did order the 6D MKII from B&H - arrives Monday. This is an upgrade from my 6D. I am a little concerned about the recent tests showing, at lower ISO's, poorer dynamic range. Apparently the 6D MKII showed very good dynamic range at higher ISO's. Apparently the 80D had better dynamic range at lower ISO"s then the 6D MKII. I'll know a lot better when I get the camera but is that is the truth its a little disappointing for what I'm paying for this camera.

 

Any comments??

 

James

108 REPLIES 108

TTMartin
Authority

@skyking wrote:

I did order the 6D MKII from B&H - arrives Monday. This is an upgrade from my 6D. I am a little concerned about the recent tests showing, at lower ISO's, poorer dynamic range. Apparently the 6D MKII showed very good dynamic range at higher ISO's. Apparently the 80D had better dynamic range at lower ISO"s then the 6D MKII. I'll know a lot better when I get the camera but is that is the truth its a little disappointing for what I'm paying for this camera.

 

Any comments??

 

James


The 80D's RAW file was optimized to score well on the 'tests'. The 'tests' have never accurately reflected the true dynamic range of Canon cameras, because typically Canon has rawer, RAW files than other companies. Canon bakes less processing into their RAW files, and also uses a different black point method. *1

 

Worry if the camera does what you want and not how it scores on the 'tests'.

 

If you are interested I have some tips on how to optimize the dynamic range from your rawer Canon RAW files in Lightroom. Basically using Lightroom setting to duplicate what is baked into other companies RAW files. 

*1 - 'Nikon currently clips the average read noise at zero, losing some data. Canon includes an offset, so processing by some raw converters can preserve the low end noise, which can be important for averaging multiple frames to detect very low intensity subjects (as in astrophotography).' - Roger Clark, PhD, NASA 

Roger - Many thanks for your insight. I do agree that sometimes we get caught on what "testing" says and not reality. If you can I would love to get your tips on enhancing the RAW files in Lightroom. BTW, I use Lightroom and lately On1 Raw to process my raw images. Again, any tips you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

Again, your insight was very much appreciated.

 

James



@skyking wrote:

Roger - Many thanks for your insight. I do agree that sometimes we get caught on what "testing" says and not reality. If you can I would love to get your tips on enhancing the RAW files in Lightroom. BTW, I use Lightroom and lately On1 Raw to process my raw images. Again, any tips you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

Again, your insight was very much appreciated.

 

James


As mentioned above Canon and Nikon set the black point in their RAW files differently so the key to processing a Canon RAW file is to make sure you have a true black, The example below is how I typically process a file. Note the Black alert on the histogram is showing and the highlight alert is not. 

Max DR 1.JPG

 

All photos are different, but, this is typical processing.

First Highlights are set to -100, and Shadows are set to +100.

Next I get a rough estimate of what my Whites to Black number should be. I want them the same in the end, but, to get a rough estimate run whites up until they clip and blacks down till they clip add the two numbers together and divide by two. Then set White to + (plus) that number and blacks to - (minus) that number.

I then set the exposure so that whites are just shy of clipping on any channel and blacks are just black on all channels. I may have to fine tune the Blacks and Whites at this time.

 

As you can see in the histogram below increasing the exposure from -.40 to -.30 would cause the whites to start to clip and the blacks start to not be fully black.

 

Max DR 2.JPG

 

Same with the histogram below, with the exposure set back to -.40 if you increased Whites to +35 or Blacks to - 25, whites would clip and the blackest blacks would no longer be true black.

 

Max DR 3.JPG

 

This technique works for properly exposed photos or ones that aren't like the photo below that was five (5) stops underexposed. 

 

Max DR 4.JPG

 

Again note Whites and Blacks are equally offset, but, now the exposure is +5.00. Yes, the photo required noise reduction and some has some 'brush' processing, however it was done completely in Lightroom and is overall usable for a photo from and APS-C 7D Mk II with it's poor dynamic range test scores.

A00A0056-10.jpg

 

edit: Note: this technique does not seem to work as well on cameras whose RAW files have already been optimized for testing like the 80D or 5D Mk IV. 

I think that I might be doing the same think as TTMartin, except maybe from a different direction, to set the widest dynamic range between whites and blacks without saturation.  

 

After applying lens correction and some clarity during Import, the first thing I do is set the W to B dynamic range.  Note the images of the triangles at the top corners of the histograms.  The saturatio indicator on the left is for Blacks, and the one on right is for Whites.

 

LR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Under.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Over.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Final.JPG

 

The above image on the left shows both Blacks and Whites as being "under", and each can be boosted slightly.  This means increasing the Whites level slider, and decreasing the Blacks level slider.  More on making adjustments later. Notice how both indicators are not "lit".  They are dark.

The image in the center shows both indicators are "over", and are fully lit to the point where they are white.  To me, this indicates saturation of both the Whites and Blacks levels.  Note the slider settings compared to the "under" image.

 

The image on the right shows the "ideal" setting.  Note how the triangle has changed to a color.  Still haven't bothered to figure out what the color means, but I think it is trying to tell me something about the color spectrum.

Making adjustments is pretty simple.  Using a Windows PC, I hold down the "ALT" key, and adjust the Whites to the right.  The image should go completely dark, and only light up the areas that are saturated as over exposed.  You want to increase the level until just before things begin to light up.  

If you begin the adjustment, and the screen is completely dark, you will see the saturation indicators will be dark.  As you increase the level, the indicator will suddenly turn white.  There is a sweet spot between fully off and fully on, where the triangle displays as a colored triangle.  This is my goal.

I adjust the Blacks level in a the opposite fashion.  If you hold down the "ALT" key as you adjust the slider, the image will turn pure white, and the saturation indicator will probably be fully off.  As you decreaase the level, dark spots will appear and the saturation indicator will turn fully white.  Back off decreasing the adjustment, and the indicator will change from white to a color.  Again, this is the sweet spot that I strive to reach.

 

[EDIT]  Sometimes I will get the outlier exposure, and cannot find a sweet spot.  In these cases, I will adjust the Highlights slider to -50, and begin adjusting the Whites.  Similarly, I may adjust the Shadows slider to +50, and begin adjusting the Blacks.

--------------------------------------------------------
"The right mouse button is your friend."

This is outstanding!!! I greatly appreciate you taking to time to help and ease my "fears" of purchasing this camera. This is also an education to say the least.

 

Again, Many, many thanks for taking the time to help me. I'm printing your info out for reference.

 

 

James


@Waddizzle wrote:

I think that I might be doing the same think as TTMartin, except maybe from a different direction, to set the widest dynamic range between whites and blacks without saturation.  

LR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Under.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Over.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Final.JPG

 


 

 

No, I do not believe we are doing the same thing.

And as I mention since Canon sets their black point differently, keeping the left black triangle 'clear', means you don't have a true black, and are maintaining 'noise' that other manufacturers bury below the black level. That is the reason those cameras score well on the 'tests'. After years of hearing how Canon sensors lacked dynamic range and were noisy, and learning what other manufacturers were baking into their RAW files, I developed my technique to duplicate that baked in processing. And one of the key things is to understand, with Canon RAW files you need to create a true black, black level.

 

The left image you have the Blacks set to a positive number I recommend, NEVER doing that.

Also, without bringing Shadows to +100 and Highlights to -100 you are not maximizing the dynamic range of the image or the camera.


So, if I "hear" you correct I never want to take the black point above "0" and can pull the black point to the negative and even "clip" the blacks. Am I correct??

 

James


@skyking wrote:

So, if I "hear" you correct I never want to take the black point above "0" and can pull the black point to the negative and even "clip" the blacks. Am I correct??

 

James


In my opinion you want blacks 'clipped', so you have a true black, black point. Not just OK to clip the blacks, you always want to clip the blacks. But, as I showed, just barely clipped.


@TTMartin wrote:

@Waddizzle wrote:

I think that I might be doing the same think as TTMartin, except maybe from a different direction, to set the widest dynamic range between whites and blacks without saturation.  

LR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Under.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Over.JPGLR6_BlackWhite_Setpoint_Final.JPG

 


 

 

No, I do not believe we are doing the same thing.

And as I mention since Canon sets their black point differently, keeping the left black triangle 'clear', means you don't have a true black, and are maintaining 'noise' that other manufacturers bury below the black level. That is the reason those cameras score well on the 'tests'. After years of hearing how Canon sensors lacked dynamic range and were noisy, and learning what other manufacturers were baking into their RAW files, I developed my technique to duplicate that baked in processing. And one of the key things is to understand, with Canon RAW files you need to create a true black, black level.

 

The left image you have the Blacks set to a positive number I recommend, NEVER doing that.

Also, without bringing Shadows to +100 and Highlights to -100 you are not maximizing the dynamic range of the image or the camera.



That is just my initial adjustment.  My next step is too usually add some contrast.  On many photos I do bring the Shadows and Highlights to those values.  Sometimes, though, it seems make the image look a little dull if I max out the adjustment.

[EDIT]. I think you may have completely misunderstood my point, BTW.  The left image is th Before.  The right image is the After.  Again, these are the initial adjustments to an image.  What happens next depends upon the image.  

Your explaation of what you do is a bit hard to follow.  I think you left something out of it.

--------------------------------------------------------
"The right mouse button is your friend."
Announcements