What zoom to buy?

[Norm53]

I put up a bird feed at the edge of a woods about 80 feet from my lunch table behind a french door. My Canon EOS Rebel T3i with EF 75-300 mm 1:4-5.6 will not bring into focus the birds, large and small.

What lens do I need to buy that will do the job? Cost is no object.

Thanks, Norm

[TCampbell]

A "gimbal" head has an arm which allows a camera to be mounted so that it is neutrally balanced.  Instead of the pivot axis being below the camera, it's actually roughly along the center-line of the lens.  The camera mount plate is attached to a platform that can slide up or down on that arm, and the camera can slide forward or backward along the plate.  This allows you to mount the camera so that it is neither nose-heavy nor tail-heavy and the up-down height allows you to adjust it so that just as much weight is above the pivot axis as below the pivot axis.

Because of this, you don't actually have to snug the gimbal clutches...  you can literally swing the camera (like a tail-gunner) and "let go" and the camera will just stay in the position it was in when you released it.

It's an excellent mount for when you have to "track" a moving subject from a stationary tripod BECAUSE the clutches don't need to be snugged down.

But there is one flaw... it doesn't allow the camera to tip side-to-side -- so if you want to rotate the camera into a vertical orientation, you can't do necessarily do that.  The exception is that LONG camera lenses tend to have their own tripod-mounting collar and the lens actually can rotate in that collar.  That means you attach the lens to the mounting plate instead of the camera body and you can rotate the camera for vertical orientation.  A short lens doesn't have a mounting collar... so no dice (they do make special mounting brackets for this.)

When you use a ballhead, you release the clutch on the ball and you can literally point the camera anywhere you want and in any orientation you want.  Snug it down and you're ready to shoot.  It's the fastest and easiest adjustment method and preferred by photographers BUT not designed for tracking subjects because it's not solid until you snug it down (the one exception is that the mounting head itself usually has a seperate rotation at the base so if you plan to keep it level then you can rotate it in azimuth.

I have a couple of ballheads and a gimbal head.  The ballheads get FAR MORE USE than the gimbal head.

EDIT:  I see Wadizzle posted photos.  I happen to own the very gimbal head pictured in that photo (it's made by Induro Gear.)

[Norm53]

Thank you for your very complete explanation of the different features of the gimbal and ball heads. Since at the beginning I will be shooting to a fixed feeder station at 64', which requires only changes in elevation from top to bottom and in between, and in the spring shooting, in addition, to a closer hummingbird station about 30' away, but near the line of sight to the 64' station, it seems that the ball head is the one to buy now.

If I decide to take the tripod to the Jersey coastal flyway in May when the birds head north, then the gimbal head would seem appropriate to catch the birds in flight. I could buy that head in the spring.

Norm

[Norm53]

I see Wadizzle posted photos.  I happen to own the very gimbal head pictured in that photo (it's made by Induro Gear.)

See my reply to him. Need to make a decision on which of the 3 shown. Biggs thinks I need the gimbal head because of the Sigma 600 weight. Will buy that instead of a ball head.

Norm

[TCampbell]

Ballhead mounts come in sizes -- as do tripods.  

Lots of companies make these heads.  While a camera or lens typically requires a 1/4" 20 thread-per-inch thread to attach, the bolt that the tripod uses to attach to the head is a bit beefier... it's a 3/8" bolt (and I think it's 16 TPI).

In any case... what this means is you can use any head from any manufacturer as long as it has the correct bolt size.  It's common to have a tripod from one vendor but a head from a different vendor -- just so the bolt size is correct (but everyone generally uses the same bolt sizes so that's usually not a problem.)

So for example, I have a Manfrotto brand tripod with a Benro brand head.  My head is a "B-3" head -- which is fairly large.  It holds nearly 40 lbs (39.68).  But they make a B-00, B-0, B-1, B-2, B-3, B-4, and B-5.  The B-5 holds just over 48 lbs.  

The Sigma 150-600 "C" lens is 4.25 lbs.

A Canon 7D II (which is built like a tank) weights about 2 lbs WITH the battery and memory card inserted.

So that's about 6 lbs.  Even if you loaded up a few other accessories on the tripod, it would be a struggle to get over 10 lbs of weight.  Even the smallest heads can handle a 10 lb load.  But there's handling the weight as in "not breaking or bending" and then there's handling the weight as in "not being springy and vibrating".  I prefer to have the extra strength so that it's not wobbly and that's why I have a B3 head.  But on that B3 head I can attach my Canon 5D III with the battery grip, both batteries, and my 300mm f/2.8 lens which weighs 5 lbs 5 ounces all on it's own.  This would be a little heavier than what you're thinking of doing (perhaps an extra 2-3 lbs of weight) and yet that things is rock solid on my B3 mount and frankly even the B2 can handle it.

If you're thinking you need a gimbal head because you don't think a ballhead can handle the weight... I don't think weight will be a problem.  

[Norm53]

If you're thinking you need a gimbal head because you don't think a ballhead can handle the weight... I don't think weight will be a problem.  

Biggs thinks that the gimbal is better than the ball because of Sigma 600 weight. He also wants the lens, not the T3i, connected to the head for the same reason. I don't know enough to decide on gimbal or ball. That's why I want you pundits to recommend something specific for me. (Don't worry; I won't blame anyone here if the system won't work because of user error.) Only thing that we have to consider are the setups:

1. At lunch table behind french door with main feeder 64' distant. Hummingbird feeder at about 30' slightly to the left of line of sight to main feeder.

2. At birding platform at coastal Jersey flyway in May and October located at Cape May Point lighthouse park. Also, walking along the beach with the migrants feeding (w/o tripod, of course).

Gentlemen, I'm overwhelmed with tech info. At this point, I need a recommendation on which tripod and which gimbal or ball head (or both) that attaches to the lens (not the camera) to buy.

Norm

[RobertTheFat]

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@Norm53 wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm overwhelmed with tech info. At this point, I need a decision on which tripod and which gimbal or ball head (or both) that attaches to the lens (not the camera) to buy.

Norm

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We are not the decision makers. You are.

[Norm53]

I changed "decision" to "recommendation". There's one in every crowd.

Norm

[RobertTheFat]

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@Norm53 wrote:

I changed "decision" to "recommendation". There's one in every crowd.

Norm

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I guess that's me. Have it your way, Norm; but upwards of a half dozen people have given you their recommendations in a thread that now stands at 78 messages. If you're not ready to make a decision, you probably never will be. I wish you luck; but I, for one, have absolutely nothing left to add.

[Waddizzle]

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@Norm53 wrote:

I changed "decision" to "recommendation". There's one in every crowd.

Norm

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Ernie is right about the gimbal mount being better suited for moving a big lens around.  I also agree that the gimbal is not the most multi-purpose and versatile tripod head to use.

But, you have stated that you initially plan to setup a stationary camera, which is focued on a feeder.  A stationary setup can be done with either a gimbal, a ball, or a pan/tilt.  While balls are most flexible for shooting stills, I suspect that a good pan/tilt may serve you better. 

Ernie mentioned that he has a Manfrotto 501 pan/tilt, which uses a Manfrotto QR plate.  While the plate is not Arca-Swiss, it has been adopted by some vendors as "standard" for video applications.   I have had my eye on the Induro PHQ1, which uses an Arca-Swiss QR plate and the double action, mounting bracket knob that I previously mentioned.  What I like about the Induro head is the fact that the QR bracket rotate 90 degrees. 

Typically, one would mount a QR plate perpendicular to the lens on a camer body, but inline with the camera lens when you mount it on a telephoto lens' tripod foot.  Because the QR bracket can rotate, you can mount the camera/lens in the same orientation on the head.  Without a rotating mounting bracket, you will either have to rotate how you mount the QR plate on your gear, or you will have adjust to the camera being oriented differently on the head when you switch to a big telephoto and back..

Someone one mentiioned that you do not have to buy a head and tripod from the same vendor.  Tripods and heads are designed to be interchangeable once you reach a certain level of performance.  I would not worry about a head not fitting on another vendor's tripod legs. Most heads come with 1/4 to 3/16 screw adaptors, anyway.

When you select a set of legs, look for whether or not it comes with a tripod bag, and what is the quality of the bag.  Can the tripod still fit inside of the bag with a head attached to it?  Fitting into the bag is one clear advantage in favor of purchasing a tripod/head kit.

Ernie likes Manfrotto, which has a long history of excellence, but not all of their legs come with bags.  I have been pleased with Induro/Benro because of what I felt was a better price/performance ratio. What I like best about Manfrotto is the availability of spare parts.  Manfrotto spare parts are hands down the easiest to obtain, with some 3rd party vendors even trying to get in on the act.  Don't be too quick to shrug off a set of high performace Manfrotto legs.

I purchased a tripod kit based on the Induro 8M AT-214 aluminum tripod, with a BHM2 ball head, and have been very pleased with it.  It came with Induro's padded/quilted bag, along with a set of hand tools and alternate feet.  That is my light setup.  Induro seems to be discontinuing all of their aluminum models and going strictly carbon fiber, leaving the Benro name to release aluminum models.

My heavier setup uses the Induro Alloy 8M 100mm bowl video tripod.  I use a Gitzo pnuematic ball as a leveling base in the 100mm bowl  [because it is far easier and quicker than piddling with the leveling half-ball adaptor], and the Induro PHD3 pan/tilt on top of the ball.  I've been considering changing to the Induro PHQ1 on my lighter setup, and giving my Induro ball to my son.  He'd love it on his Vanguard geared column tripod.  HIs current Vanguard ball has no friction adjustment.

[Norm53]

Ernie is right about the gimbal mount being better suited for moving a big lens around.  I also agree that the gimbal is not the most multi-purpose and versatile tripod head to use.

But, you have stated that you initially plan to setup a stationary camera, which is focued on a feeder.  A stationary setup can be done with either a gimbal, a ball, or a pan/tilt.  While balls are most flexible for shooting stills, I suspect that a good pan/tilt may serve you better. 

There are 2 feeders, main and hummingbird. Considering the weight of the 600 + T3i (or 7D Mk ii), and considering that I must adjust the head vertically and horizontally quickly from top to ground and across the ground (panning) of the main feeder and switch to the closer hummingbird feeder, would the pan/tilt be the better head than the gimbal or ball? Without the benefit of your experience, it would seem that adjusting the screws of the pan/tilt would take too much time.

When you select a set of legs, look for whether or not it comes with a tripod bag, and what is the quality of the bag.  Can the tripod still fit inside of the bag with a head attached to it?  Fitting into the bag is one clear advantage in favor of purchasing a tripod/head kit.

Since most of the bags offered seem to be a tight fit with the tripod with attached head, I'm thinking that a duffel bag with side handle might be a sensible solution to the fit problem.

Ernie likes Manfrotto, which has a long history of excellence, but not all of their legs come with bags.  I have been pleased with Induro/Benro because of what I felt was a better price/performance ratio. What I like best about Manfrotto is the availability of spare parts.  Manfrotto spare parts are hands down the easiest to obtain, with some 3rd party vendors even trying to get in on the act.  Don't be too quick to shrug off a set of high performace Manfrotto legs.

For the reason you cite, I prefer to stay with Manfrotto tripod. As you say, any respectable Arc-Swiss head made by another mfg. will fit the Manfrotto tripod.

Norm